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UADx + Logic + M1 Performance Issues

nikoli

Active Member
I don't normally have this problem... and I'm somewhat new to using UADx plugs.

I have a MBP with an M1 chip. I use Logic.

I have a session with about a dozen tracks. Each track has at least 3 UADx plugs, none more than 6.

I have a few busses with multiple UADx plugs, only 2 for reverbs.

I'm recording at 48k. Logic is set for a gig buffer.

Not sure why but Logic barks at me constantly. This project really isn't anything crazy in terms of number of tracks or plugs. Are these UADx plugs just really CPU intensive? Seems like my MBP should be able to handle something like this without issue.
 

hotspot

Venerated Member
What do you mean by 1 gig buffer? I would guess it’s 1024 instead?
No matter what your CPU is, I wouldn’t record into a full equipped mix.
If your buffers are at 1024, it would be too much latency for me.
Make sure you are recording in low latency mode:

Yes, some UADx plugins are CPU intensive.
 

dastga

Active Member
Sorry, not helpful, but I am experiencing issues with Logic as of lately. Playback stopping like for you and crashing random plug-ins (that are M1 ready) and this frustrating "recover" dialog box. I've been using Logic for yearssss with hardly any issues. The only CPU heavy UADx is SCS. My fix was to move to Luna (again!) and this time I think I'm hooked! Luna, unlike Logic, is circumventing the issues somehow, and playback is not stopping, rarely crashes. BFD3 and some IK room as example. Again, not an answer you're looking for, but I am using Logic, M1, 16GB and damn it's giving me problems, so tired of it 🤯
 

LesBrown

Hall of Fame Member
Are these UADx plugs just really CPU intensive? Seems like my MBP should be able to handle something like this without issue.
Are you recording to an external SSD or internal drive? I recommend external SSD to reduce load, 'competition' between Logic, Mac OS and other processes using the internal drive.

Aside from that, like hotspot said: Avoid recording into a full mix. Freezing non-recording tracks could help a lot.

If you can manage it, an Apollo and/or UAD satellite can take some of the load off your Mac's CPU.
 

Bear-Faced Cow

Hall of Fame Member
Second the above suggestion as this seems more a bandwidth issue than a CPU one. If your Logic project is not on an external Thunderbolt drive, I would suggest you use one. Same goes for any sample libraries.

jord
 

nikoli

Active Member
What do you mean by 1 gig buffer? I would guess it’s 1024 instead?
No matter what your CPU is, I wouldn’t record into a full equipped mix.
If your buffers are at 1024, it would be too much latency for me.
Make sure you are recording in low latency mode:

Yes, some UADx plugins are CPU intensive.
Yes, 1024

I track thru Console, so buffering latency in the DAW isn't a factor for me.
 

nikoli

Active Member
Are you recording to an external SSD or internal drive? I recommend external SSD to reduce load, 'competition' between Logic, Mac OS and other processes using the internal drive.

Aside from that, like hotspot said: Avoid recording into a full mix. Freezing non-recording tracks could help a lot.

If you can manage it, an Apollo and/or UAD satellite can take some of the load off your Mac's CPU.
Yes, recording to an external SSD... dual SSD in RAID 0 connected via Thunderbolt.

I have boatloads of DSP (3 apollos + satellite)... but recently I've been using UADx native to test those waters.

I'm getting CPU spikes from the UADx plugs. I don't get "show stopper" spikes with either the stock Logic plugs or Waves plugs... frankly I can quadruple the amount of tracks/plugs if I don't use UADx, and still not have any spiking problems. So I'm wondering if the UADx plugs are just that much more intensive (ie, this is expected behavior), or if maybe there's an issue.
 

hotspot

Venerated Member
I track thru Console, so buffering latency in the DAW isn't a factor for me.
Indeed it is. Your DAW has to handle your buffer settings and sound processing (like plugins). So it is the biggest factor if you do overdubs, because your DAW has to manage playback and the actual recording.
Console is just for real-time processing of the incoming signal.
 

nikoli

Active Member
Second the above suggestion as this seems more a bandwidth issue than a CPU one. If your Logic project is not on an external Thunderbolt drive, I would suggest you use one. Same goes for any sample libraries.

jord
It's definitely CPU spiking causing Logic to stop playback.

FWIW, this particular project is all audio. There are zero software instruments.

13 tracks of audio with 43 plugs (36 of which are UADx... mostly Neve 1073, LA2A Silver, and Studer Tape)
5 busses with 14 plugs (12 of which are UADx... 2 are Capitol Chambers, 2 are Sound City)

Would think an M1 should be able to handle that without having to "resort" to DSP.
 

nikoli

Active Member
Indeed it is. Your DAW has to handle your buffer settings and sound processing (like plugins). So it is the biggest factor if you do overdubs, because your DAW has to manage playback and the actual recording.
Console is just for real-time processing of the incoming signal.
Right... so the larger the buffer, the more stable the tracking process is during overdubs.

Monitoring thru Console makes high buffer latency a non-issue in the DAW. This way I can track/overdub into a rich mix thanks to a high buffer. Lower buffer sets the stage for problems in this case.
 

Bear-Faced Cow

Hall of Fame Member
It's definitely CPU spiking causing Logic to stop playback.

FWIW, this particular project is all audio. There are zero software instruments.

13 tracks of audio with 43 plugs (36 of which are UADx... mostly Neve 1073, LA2A Silver, and Studer Tape)
5 busses with 14 plugs (12 of which are UADx... 2 are Capitol Chambers, 2 are Sound City)

Would think an M1 should be able to handle that without having to "resort" to DSP.
You CPU capabilities have little to do with this issue. Audio production is more about how wide than how fast.

CPU spiking is also caused by excessive traffic on a single hard drive. How much RAM do you have as well? Both might be combination for CoreAudio issues.

jord
 

nikoli

Active Member
You CPU capabilities have little to do with this issue. Audio production is more about how wide than how fast.

CPU spiking is also caused by excessive traffic on a single hard drive. How much RAM do you have as well? Both might be combination for CoreAudio issues.

jord
I appreciate the response Jord.

I'm using dual SSDs configured in RAID 0, connected via TB. (Logic perf mon shows minimal Drive I/0 during playback of this project)

This MBP has 16 GB RAM. (Activity Monitor shows ~13.5 GB in use while the project is open and playing back)

Again, I don't have any issues with projects that have exponentially more tracks, soft synths, and plugins. This is why I seek feedback from this forum on whether the experience with UADx plugs is similar.

Logic perf mon shows the 4 performance cores of the M1 are being brutalized by the UADx plugs. I suspect if I had a CPU with more performance cores (like your M3 Max) this would improve my current UADx experience. (Of course rather than buying a new laptop, I can just utilize the DSP in my apollos/satellite).

So, are you having a similar experience with UADx hitting your CPU harder than other plugs?
 

nikoli

Active Member
Sorry, not helpful, but I am experiencing issues with Logic as of lately. Playback stopping like for you and crashing random plug-ins (that are M1 ready) and this frustrating "recover" dialog box. I've been using Logic for yearssss with hardly any issues. The only CPU heavy UADx is SCS. My fix was to move to Luna (again!) and this time I think I'm hooked! Luna, unlike Logic, is circumventing the issues somehow, and playback is not stopping, rarely crashes. BFD3 and some IK room as example. Again, not an answer you're looking for, but I am using Logic, M1, 16GB and damn it's giving me problems, so tired of it 🤯

Sorry I missed your message.

Yes I have been seeing the "recover" dialog box too... I first noticed after installing (and using) UADx plugs. It only seems to pop up after I've stepped away from my machine for a while. Have never seen it while I'm actively using it (knocks on wood).

I forgot to mention that I am also using Ventura. Have not upgraded to Sonoma yet.

I am beginning to think UADx and Logic and M1 do not play nice together. I would be lying if I said this hasn't caused me to think about trying Luna again.

But I think my "solution" , at least in the near term, is to utilize my DSP more... probably just use UADx versions of certain plugs and DSP versions for others. In the words of Samwise Gamgee... "share the load".
 

Bear-Faced Cow

Hall of Fame Member
I appreciate the response Jord.

I'm using dual SSDs configured in RAID 0, connected via TB. (Logic perf mon shows minimal Drive I/0 during playback of this project)

This MBP has 16 GB RAM. (Activity Monitor shows ~13.5 GB in use while the project is open and playing back)

Again, I don't have any issues with projects that have exponentially more tracks, soft synths, and plugins. This is why I seek feedback from this forum on whether the experience with UADx plugs is similar.

Logic perf mon shows the 4 performance cores of the M1 are being brutalized by the UADx plugs. I suspect if I had a CPU with more performance cores (like your M3 Max) this would improve my current UADx experience. (Of course rather than buying a new laptop, I can just utilize the DSP in my apollos/satellite).

So, are you having a similar experience with UADx hitting your CPU harder than other plugs?
No problems at all running UADx. Decided to put a bunch on one of my projects consisting of 23 tracks of comped audio and a multi-out instance of Superior Drummer 3, leveraging a couple of Studers, Hitsville Chambers, Distressors, and a few others. Not even breaking a sweat.
Screenshot 2023-12-21 at 5.14.34 PM.png Screenshot 2023-12-21 at 5.14.23 PM.png
But it'a not solely because of the CPU. I also have 64GB of RAM and separate RAIDs for my sample libraries and audio drives on Thunderbolt (they are still TB2 but the various drives provide a ton of bandwidth). I am also hooked up to a dock which my Apollo/Satellites and RAIDs are hooked into. It also handles other needs such as my networking and USB2 requirements.

Just to note, I also never had CoreAudio issues on my both my trashcan and my cheesegrater (which was a firewire unit), and I had resource hogs for plug-ins. I made sure my systems were clean.

It's not your CPU. The M1 is well suited for the job. In fact, you have more performance cores than an M2, making it far more suitable for audio.

You have 16GB of RAM, which means that you might be page swapping resources. That is a considerable issue as this results in not only disk traffic, but extra CPU processing outside of your audio production work. This could be a result of various daemons and hidden apps residing in RAM. You might have some cleanup to do. Even a bad font will consume CPU resources. If you migrated over to an Apple Silicon unit from an Intel unit using the migration utility, you may have brought over more than you bargained for.

Offsetting your audio to your TB drives is a good start. However, that's what it is... a start.

jord
 

dastga

Active Member
Sorry I missed your message.

Yes I have been seeing the "recover" dialog box too... I first noticed after installing (and using) UADx plugs. It only seems to pop up after I've stepped away from my machine for a while. Have never seen it while I'm actively using it (knocks on wood).

I forgot to mention that I am also using Ventura. Have not upgraded to Sonoma yet.

I am beginning to think UADx and Logic and M1 do not play nice together. I would be lying if I said this hasn't caused me to think about trying Luna again.

But I think my "solution" , at least in the near term, is to utilize my DSP more... probably just use UADx versions of certain plugs and DSP versions for others. In the words of Samwise Gamgee... "share the load".
No worries! :)

I can just tell you from my experience using Logic over the years, all MacOS to date; it's only gotten worse. What I can say however, is that UADx plugins does not seem to cause me any issues! The problem I have had with Recover is SSD5, BFD3 (which is Silicon ready) and Sunset Studios from IK (along with a few others) but never UADx afaik! And for me the annoying Recover can pop up when idle like for you, or when in the middle of a session. It's been hell tbh. I had to do the elimination thing and remove plug after plug to try and find the culprit only to export a project and the project kept crashing randomly. Who the F came up with this Recover instead of just disabling the plugin causing it, is what I'm thinking.

I've been using Luna for a few days now and I am really happy so far! And having best of two worlds; tracking with UAD2 and the unchecking rec to have the inserts still there is just awesome! Who knows, maybe I will go back, but atm with Logic crashing left and right, stopping etc, I'm good... 🤯 Give it a shot, export a few AAFs and mess around! :)
 

nikoli

Active Member
No problems at all running UADx. Decided to put a bunch on one of my projects consisting of 23 tracks of comped audio and a multi-out instance of Superior Drummer 3, leveraging a couple of Studers, Hitsville Chambers, Distressors, and a few others. Not even breaking a sweat.
View attachment 16939 View attachment 16940
But it'a not solely because of the CPU. I also have 64GB of RAM and separate RAIDs for my sample libraries and audio drives on Thunderbolt (they are still TB2 but the various drives provide a ton of bandwidth). I am also hooked up to a dock which my Apollo/Satellites and RAIDs are hooked into. It also handles other needs such as my networking and USB2 requirements.

Just to note, I also never had CoreAudio issues on my both my trashcan and my cheesegrater (which was a firewire unit), and I had resource hogs for plug-ins. I made sure my systems were clean.

It's not your CPU. The M1 is well suited for the job. In fact, you have more performance cores than an M2, making it far more suitable for audio.

You have 16GB of RAM, which means that you might be page swapping resources. That is a considerable issue as this results in not only disk traffic, but extra CPU processing outside of your audio production work. This could be a result of various daemons and hidden apps residing in RAM. You might have some cleanup to do. Even a bad font will consume CPU resources. If you migrated over to an Apple Silicon unit from an Intel unit using the migration utility, you may have brought over more than you bargained for.

Offsetting your audio to your TB drives is a good start. However, that's what it is... a start.

jord
Thanks again for the response.

We agree that something is hitting my CPU when I'm using UADx plugs in Logic. With all due respect, I don't think we can rule out the CPU being an issue just yet.

Again, I have no problem working in projects with exponentially more plugs and tracks with stock Logic and Waves plugs. So it's possible the UADx plugs are so much more intensive that I should expect to hit a wall on my system on projects such as the one I'm working on... pointing to the limitations of my plain M1 system... ie the proverbial "something" is the nature of the UADx plugs hitting the CPU harder than other plugs hit it.

And in an effort to clear up some terms... when you suggest 16 GB RAM as a possible issue... if that were the case (and I don't think is), it's a moot point as far as I'm concerned because the RAM is soldered into the laptop. So in order to address that theoretical problem, I'd have to upgrade both RAM and CPU. At which point my Perf Mon screenshots would look a lot more like yours.

I really don't know what you mean about TB drives being "a good start"... frankly it comes off a little condescending... hopefully unintentional on your part but that's how I'm receiving it. Feel like I'm being goaded into a pissing contest where I tell you I've been an IT professional for 20 years, and that I too have multiple RAID arrays... one for off site backup, one for recording/tracking, one for Time Machine. I too have Apollos and a Satellite connected to my TB3 dock. Do I go full nerd and include CCNA and A+ certified in my signature? Where do I upload my resume?

Look, the only thing I'm having problems with is CPU utilization in conjunction with UADx plugs. No, I didn't migrate. No, I'm not having font problems. Yes, I too have maintained clean systems in the past. I believe this one is clean too, with the exception of my UADx-related problem... which might not be a problem... for all I know, it maybe expected behavior. Or something on my system is f*cked and it's only impacting Logic when I use more than 35 UADx plugs?
 

nikoli

Active Member
...and now that I've typed all that... I see my UAD meter is telling me there is a UAD update available... I'll see if that doesn't help my situation.
 

Bear-Faced Cow

Hall of Fame Member
Let's take this one step at a time, starting with...

I really don't know what you mean about TB drives being "a good start"... frankly it comes off a little condescending... hopefully unintentional on your part but that's how I'm receiving it. Feel like I'm being goaded into a pissing contest where I tell you I've been an IT professional for 20 years, and that I too have multiple RAID arrays... one for off site backup, one for recording/tracking, one for Time Machine. I too have Apollos and a Satellite connected to my TB3 dock. Do I go full nerd and include CCNA and A+ certified in my signature? Where do I upload my resume?
I'm going to put a pin in your ego right from the start. What does an A+ and CCNA certification have to do with audio production? In one word nothing. It has nothing to do with how Logic works, or how the Mac OS works for that matter. In fact, the only thing your Cisco knowledge does is bolster my side in what I have already known for 35+ years of serving the technical needs of rocks stars through some of the best technical minds in the business, is that audio production is not about speed, but about bandwidth.

If you feel the facts are condescending and feel you have to start a pissing contest, that's totally a you thing.

Look, the only thing I'm having problems with is CPU utilization in conjunction with UADx plugs. No, I didn't migrate. No, I'm not having font problems. Yes, I too have maintained clean systems in the past. I believe this one is clean too, with the exception of my UADx-related problem... which might not be a problem... for all I know, it maybe expected behavior. Or something on my system is f*cked and it's only impacting Logic when I use more than 35 UADx plugs?
Just out of my own curiosity, I just uglified` a mix with 20 extra instances of Hitsville Chamber, which is rather resource heavy, on top of the 19 other UADx plugins. This is the result:

Screenshot 2023-12-21 at 9.47.24 PM.png
Logic's performance meter is not a cpu meter, but a CoreAudio meter which shows just how much the CPU is processing in relation to CoreAudio. Higher numbers not only mean more plug-ins. It's also means something else is causing the CPU to work harder with CoreAudio. Disk spikes and background processes will drive up this meter. The fact that I just took 22 hungry hippos of a plug-in across 12 cores means very little is getting in the way. I'd probably agree that 22 of these might cause an overload on an M1, since the specs of the M1 reveal 4 performance cores.

But you don't have 22 hungry hippos... in fact, your previous message reveals you to only have 4. That should not trip the M1 in this case. The studers, compressors, etc., aren't enough to `trip the M1. Thus, it is not unreasonable to conclude that something else is eating up your bandwidth.
Again, I have no problem working in projects with exponentially more plugs and tracks with stock Logic and Waves plugs. So it's possible the UADx plugs are so much more intensive that I should expect to hit a wall on my system on projects such as the one I'm working on... pointing to the limitations of my plain M1 system... ie the proverbial "something" is the nature of the UADx plugs hitting the CPU harder than other plugs hit it.
I don't use Waves plugins so I know nothing about them. Logic plugins don't count because they are not AUs and thus don't play by CoreAudio rules. Yes, I will agree that the UADx plug-ins require more CPU power by comparison. However, you only had 4 resource hungry plug-ins.
And in an effort to clear up some terms... when you suggest 16 GB RAM as a possible issue... if that were the case (and I don't think is), it's a moot point as far as I'm concerned because the RAM is soldered into the laptop. So in order to address that theoretical problem, I'd have to upgrade both RAM and CPU. At which point my Perf Mon screenshots would look a lot more like yours.
Not enough RAM is just that: not enough RAM. Your IT experience could have told you that one. Mine did. Who cares about how you would need more? But I will agree with you in that in order to get more RAM, you probably would need a more capable CPU only because the M1 seemed to have a 16GB limitation. The fact of the matter, however, is that if your unit is paging, it's eating CPU. If it's eating CPU, CoreAudio is going to vomit.

The plain and simple fact is that when it comes to Logic, you have a 4-core system with 16GB. Logic is reserving 13.5GB of RAM leaving 3.5GB for the OS and everything else. If Logic can't let go of the RAM that it has reserved, it's going to page your memory in order to run various background tasks of who knows what you have in there. You're probably going to need to go through your system with a fine tooth comb and check to see what daemons are running and stop from the loading. You will also have to look at other background processes. If you don't have the bandwidth to run everything in your computer, an M3 isn't enough to save you.

Whether you consider what I am saying or not, it doesn't matter to me. I'm not the one experiencing CoreAudio issues, and with good reason. Take it however you want.

jord
 

nikoli

Active Member
...and now that I've typed all that... I see my UAD meter is telling me there is a UAD update available... I'll see if that doesn't help my situation.
FWIW, update largely fixed my problem. Am able to run the session without getting the dreaded show stopping spikes.
 
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