Using two Apollo Twin X side-by-side on same MAC

[AnalogAudio]

Hi. When making the decision to buy the Apollo Twin X (Duo) Thunderbolt or not, I was persuaded to do so and invest in this new device provider (UA) and to move away from RME audio interfaces, partly based on the whole 'Plug-In' marketing I read about but also and significantly on the fact that UA were stating on their website and in the user Manual that you can chain several Apollos together in radial-star formation to build up your Input count. This seemed a good feature for someone like me who needs a higher input count in future but could only afford to start with a single Twin X but could add other Twin X's later. I have since read on a forum (maybe this one - I cannot find it now) that it is not possible and it doesn't work. I really need to know what the truth is because if the UA marketing says 'yes' but the User's reality says 'no' then I have a major problem with UA over this issue. Can an UA admin/employee please reply to this request for clarity please. Many thanks.

 

[jnorman]

Here is a guide to create aggregate devices for Mac. I think Only the Apollo 8 models have daisy chaining capability . There is lots of info on google…

How To Integrate Multiple Devices On Your Mac

Use a combination of your AIRA, Boutique and Roland gear to create an Aggregate Device on your Mac.

rolandcorp.com.au

.

 

[FutureLegends]

You can use up to 4 Apollos at the same time, but only one of them can be a desktop model (Twin, X4). So you could add an x6, x8, x8p or x16. Or three.
Aggregating like above means you loose a lot of the functions that make the Apollo system great.

 

[AnalogAudio]

Here is a guide to create aggregate devices for Mac. I think Only the Apollo 8 models have daisy chaining capability . There is lots of info on google…

How To Integrate Multiple Devices On Your Mac

Use a combination of your AIRA, Boutique and Roland gear to create an Aggregate Device on your Mac.

rolandcorp.com.au

.

Thank you for this information about 'aggregating devices' - I was not aware of what it meant or how it worked so the article looks v useful. Appreciated.

 

[AnalogAudio]

You can use up to 4 Apollos at the same time, but only one of them can be a desktop model (Twin, X4). So you could add an x6, x8, x8p or x16. Or three.
Aggregating like above means you loose a lot of the functions that make the Apollo system great.

Thank you for this information about using multiple Apollo devices. None of these details were listed in the UA articles that I saw advertising the 'multiple devices' option - they did not specify that Desktop models were exempt from this possibility. I do feel misled by the UA marketing and it means I am now stuck with a limited two channel system unless I pay considerably more for another seprate audio interface which is not Desktop. I would have bought a single multi-input device if I had the money, so this is a blow to my plans and the desktop Twin X looks like a poor investment for me now.

 

[Joe Porto]

Thank you for this information about using multiple Apollo devices. None of these details were listed in the UA articles that I saw advertising the 'multiple devices' option - they did not specify that Desktop models were exempt from this possibility. I do feel misled by the UA marketing and it means I am now stuck with a limited two channel system unless I pay considerably more for another seprate audio interface which is not Desktop. I would have bought a single multi-input device if I had the money, so this is a blow to my plans and the desktop Twin X looks like a poor investment for me now.

You can still add 8 mic pres to your twin via adat.

 

[AnalogAudio]

You can still add 8 mic pres to your twin via adat.

Hi Joe. This is what I had hoped as a last resort to being able to integrate this Twin X into my studio Vs selling it - to be able to bring in 8 x ADAT channels through the Twin and Console into my DAW. I don't use microphones at all, just synthesisers and guitars, so will this still work OK? (I am new to ADAT usage). I have started a separate thread about problems I am having setting up ADAT channels into the Twin: https://uadforum.com/community/inde...el-usage-beyond-2-channels.67962/#post-494124

 

[kcatthedog2]

Thank you for this information about using multiple Apollo devices. None of these details were listed in the UA articles that I saw advertising the 'multiple devices' option - they did not specify that Desktop models were exempt from this possibility. I do feel misled by the UA marketing and it means I am now stuck with a limited two channel system unless I pay considerably more for another seprate audio interface which is not Desktop. I would have bought a single multi-input device if I had the money, so this is a blow to my plans and the desktop Twin X looks like a poor investment for me now.

With respect, whoever sold you the two twin apollos, either misunderstands the ua system or mislead you: nothing new here: it has been a known aspect of twins for years.

 

[UniversalAudio]

Hi. When making the decision to buy the Apollo Twin X (Duo) Thunderbolt or not, I was persuaded to do so and invest in this new device provider (UA) and to move away from RME audio interfaces, partly based on the whole 'Plug-In' marketing I read about but also and significantly on the fact that UA were stating on their website and in the user Manual that you can chain several Apollos together in radial-star formation to build up your Input count. This seemed a good feature for someone like me who needs a higher input count in future but could only afford to start with a single Twin X but could add other Twin X's later. I have since read on a forum (maybe this one - I cannot find it now) that it is not possible and it doesn't work. I really need to know what the truth is because if the UA marketing says 'yes' but the User's reality says 'no' then I have a major problem with UA over this issue. Can an UA admin/employee please reply to this request for clarity please. Many thanks.

You can only use one desktop Apollo (Twin, x4, Solo) at a time.

Please point me to any UA marketing materials that say/imply otherwise.

This doc points it out:

https://help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/articles/214617226-UA-Device-Compatibility-with-Apollo-Thunderbolt

 

[Joe Porto]

Hi Joe. This is what I had hoped as a last resort to being able to integrate this Twin X into my studio Vs selling it - to be able to bring in 8 x ADAT channels through the Twin and Console into my DAW. I don't use microphones at all, just synthesisers and guitars, so will this still work OK? (I am new to ADAT usage). I have started a separate thread about problems I am having setting up ADAT channels into the Twin: https://uadforum.com/community/inde...el-usage-beyond-2-channels.67962/#post-494124

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ADA8200--behringer-ada8200-microphone-preamp

This would be the least expensive option to get 8 additional instrument/mic/line inputs into your Twin @48k.

 

[Clbraddock]

Hi Joe. This is what I had hoped as a last resort to being able to integrate this Twin X into my studio Vs selling it - to be able to bring in 8 x ADAT channels through the Twin and Console into my DAW. I don't use microphones at all, just synthesisers and guitars, so will this still work OK? (I am new to ADAT usage). I have started a separate thread about problems I am having setting up ADAT channels into the Twin: https://uadforum.com/community/inde...el-usage-beyond-2-channels.67962/#post-494124

Assuming you only need additional inputs (and dont need additional outputs) ADAT would be perfect. The adat channels will appear right in console and can be used in a DAW. I used an adat interface together with my X6 for awhile with no problems.

 

[AnalogAudio]

You can only use one desktop Apollo (Twin, x4, Solo) at a time.

Please point me to any UA marketing materials that say/imply otherwise.

This doc points it out:

https://help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/articles/214617226-UA-Device-Compatibility-with-Apollo-Thunderbolt

Thanks for your reply. I bought the Apollo Twin X from the retailer on 31 March 2023 and undertook research about the unit a few days before that, as I knew nothing much about UA and Apollo, having been an RME interface user for 13 years. In March 2023 I did not come across the article you have posted the link to here now, which, incidentally, is dated/timed at October 27, 2023 23:48, but I did see another online reference that said you could use multiple units together, if needed, to combine inputs etc. and also saw the UA webpage (which the retailer also uses) reference which mentions the multi-unit feature, but without qualifying it with conditions. See below:



When I looked online I also saw the retailers description (see screenshot below) and I took that highlighted statement literally, unaware at that time there were conditions (which are stated in your subsequent 27th October compatibility article).


Despite buying the device in March, aside from downloading the 'free' plug- ins and undertaking a couple of updates at that time, I did not explore using it properly as a 2 in/2 out hardware device until a few weeks ago, hence the issue has only arisen now.

I bought the Twin X Duo in good faith based on the knowledge that it was a 2 in-2 out device but which could be added to by combining other units of the same or similar model to expand input count into Console and therefore my DAW.

 

[UniversalAudio]

Thanks for your reply. I bought the Apollo Twin X from the retailer on 31 March 2023 and undertook research about the unit a few days before that, as I knew nothing much about UA and Apollo, having been an RME interface user for 13 years. In March 2023 I did not come across the article you have posted the link to here now, which, incidentally, is dated/timed at October 27, 2023 23:48, but I did see another online reference that said you could use multiple units together, if needed, to combine inputs etc. and also saw the UA webpage (which the retailer also uses) reference which mentions the multi-unit feature, but without qualifying it with conditions. See below:

View attachment 16643

When I looked online I also saw the retailers description (see screenshot below) and I took that highlighted statement literally, unaware at that time there were conditions (which are stated in your subsequent 27th October compatibility article).
View attachment 16642

Despite buying the device in March, aside from downloading the 'free' plug- ins and undertaking a couple of updates at that time, I did not explore using it properly as a 2 in/2 out hardware device until a few weeks ago, hence the issue has only arisen now.

I bought the Twin X Duo in good faith based on the knowledge that it was a 2 in-2 out device but which could be added to by combining other units of the same or similar model to expand input count into Console and therefore my DAW.

Thanks for the detailed reply. The limitation has always been:
6 total devices, 4 of which can be Apollos, and one of those 4 can be a desktop unit.

So you can add a rack Apollo no problem.

BTW, this limitation is based on the TB enumeration process that happens in the driver. Desktops have special functions like Talkback and Monitor Controller functionality and that cannot come from two devices at the same time.

 

[AnalogAudio]

Thanks for the detailed reply. The limitation has always been:
6 total devices, 4 of which can be Apollos, and one of those 4 can be a desktop unit.

So you can add a rack Apollo no problem.

BTW, this limitation is based on the TB enumeration process that happens in the driver. Desktops have special functions like Talkback and Monitor Controller functionality and that cannot come from two devices at the same time.

Thanks for your reply. I did not see the evidence at the time of buying that "The limitation has always been: 6 total devices, 4 of which can be Apollos, and one of those 4 can be a desktop unit.". If I had seen it then I would simply not have bought the product because it is not fit for my recording purposes in the mid-to long term as a single 2 in/2 out device without having the scalability of adding more of the same units later (this was the appeal to me - to be able to add another Twin X later). Can you show me compelling evidence that clear unambiguous information about this limitation was available on 31 March 2023, given the article you directed me to was dated 27 October 2023?

Also, I took my cue from the wording on the retailer website under the Apollo Twin X Duo TB (see below) which did not express the limitation conclusively, as the paragraph comprised two sentences and the second was not expressed as a conditional upon the meaning of the first:



"Users of Apollo Twin X Heritage Edition can combine up to four Thunderbolt Apollos and six total UAD-2 devices — adding I/O and DSP as your studio grows." - this sentence does not communicate a limitation of only being able to use Apollo rack units as the additonal 'combined' units. It does not distinguish between Apollo models, and therefore, quite reasonably, I took that at face value to mean that my Twin X was included, because the sentence did not point out that it wasn't.

"Once you expand your studio with an Apollo X rackmount unit, you can use Apollo Twin X as a desktop monitor control with additional I/O and DSP power." - this sentence tells me I can add an Apollo X rackmount unit to allow my Twin X to contribute as a Desktop Monitor with the additional benefit that it will give me additonal I/O and DSP, but it does not tell me that to get additonal I/O you must add an Apollo X rackmount. Causality between the 'addition of an Apollo X rack unit' to 'increase I/O' is not clearly established in the way this is written.

If this paragraph had been written instead as:

Users of Apollo Twin X Heritage Edition can combine up to four Thunderbolt Apollos and six total UAD-2 devices — adding I/O and DSP as their studio grows (being able to use their Apollo Twin X as a desktop monitor control with additional I/O and DSP power) provided they expand their studio with an Apollo X rackmount unit"

... then it would have clearly communicated the causality and therefore the limitation. But sadly it wasnt expressed like this, so respectfully, I think I do have a case to go back to my retailer to seek a refund or a swap.

 

[Deleted-66240]

Can you show me compelling evidence that clear unambiguous information about this limitation was available on 31 March 2023, given the article you directed me to was dated 27 October 2023?

Articles get updated all the time. Here's that same article as it was posted on Nov. 19, 2022:



And the same, on Aug. 4, 2020:



This was also posted on May 12, 2022:

 

[UniversalAudio]

Articles get updated all the time. Here's that same article as it was posted on Nov. 19, 2022:
View attachment 16659


And the same, on Aug. 4, 2020:
View attachment 16660


This was also posted on May 12, 2022:

All of this.

 

[LesBrown]

I think I do have a case to go back to my retailer to seek a refund or a swap

The retailer decides whether they take a return or not, regardless of any discussion here.

If the product is not the one you need, tell the retailer it doesn't fit your needs. In my experience, any decent music store will accept a return for that exact reason. If you tell them you want "a bigger one" or "something with more connectivity" or whatever, it's even more likely they will take a return.

 

[AnalogAudio]

Thank you for sharing the UA articles from history. I am not surprised now, after this conservation, that there were technical articles back then amongst the plethora of the UA websites, but as a brand new customer to UA products back in March 2023 before this conversation, and despite looking at YouTubes and articles back then which reviewed the Twin X TB, I did not stumble across ‘compatibility for multi-unit functions’ articles because it was not in my mind to do so, because my awareness at that time, as interpreted from the retailers website (and the corresponding product page of UA’s website) was that you could run several Twin X’s side by side, as I have already explained.

I agree with LesBrown on this point right now (ref: “The retailer decides whether they take a return or not, regardless of any discussion here……tell the retailer it doesn't fit your needs. In my experience, any decent music store will accept a return for that exact reason”) that it is for me to approach the retailer to see if they would honour a replacement or trade-up of something more appropriate. As it happens, the retailer was very good to deal with regarding the original purchasing process, and when two reasonable parties communicate respectfully, good things can happen, and great customer service counts for a lot. My issue isn’t with the retailer per se, it is specifically and only about the lack of clarity at the point of sale regarding the marketing about the 'multi-unit potential' for the product for newbies like me.

I had to bring this question to the Forum because I found no other viable channel to communicate directly with UA in private about this in a timely fashion (which would have been my preference, rather than playing this out on the www) but the only options I could find were UA website FAQ’s and this Forum.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this conversation, including UA – I do appreciate it. I feel this is the appropriate end of this thread now.

 

[UniversalAudio]

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this conversation, including UA – I do appreciate it. I feel this is the appropriate end of this thread now.

Glad you got the info you needed, albeit later than you'd have preferred.

I do think you can keep the Twin and use any number of expansion methods to arrive at a system that will suit your needs.