Waterfall rotary not responding to midi

[simeon]

i'm using in logic (latest version). i have speed assigned to modulation. it doesn't respond to the keyboard and it doesn't respond to modulation written into a region. i can record speed changes made by manually flipping the switch and it will respond to the data written, but that's it. any clues on how to solve please? the track is set to "all channels" and the keyboard is transmitting on channel 1.
if i use ableton live and send midi to the audio track the plugin is on, it works perfectly.
many thanks.

 

[LesBrown]

This setup works for me.



Or do you require that modulation toggle speed?

 

[LesBrown]

This might be pertinent info from the Waterfall manual. Long story short: midi modulation automation will be used by the instrument on the track, but not by the plugins unless you disable modulation control in the instrument.

"In most DAWs, when a MIDI-controlled effect such as Waterfall Rotary Speaker is instantiated after an instrument plug-in, MIDI messages affect the instrument plug-in, but do not pass through to the following effect plug-in. MIDI does pass through an instrument to the plug-in with LUNA, but the MIDI messages are received by both the instrument and the following plug-in.

For example, if you use the mod wheel to control rotary speed, the instrument will respond to the mod wheel messages (and they will pass to the rotary speed switch in Waterfall Rotary Speaker), unless you disable mod wheel control in the instrument."

https://help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/articles/12735041523988-Waterfall-Rotary-Speaker-Manual

 

[simeon]

yup, so apologies for my poorly worded initial post. drawing the speed into the track automation works fine, but i want to be able to use the mod wheel or the sustain pedal. i saw that bit in the manual and had a root around the settings in kontakt and saw that there's a setting to allow it to output incoming cc data, but it made no difference. what confused me was i removed kontakt from the instrument track, so waterfall was the only plugin on the track and it still didn't respond to mod wheel changes. i then tried it in ableton and it worked perfectly if i sent midi directly to waterfall from a second midi in, effectively bypassing kontakt, which now seems like it has no midi through.

solution -

ok so i found out how to do it - load waterfall into a midi instrument slot as a midi controlled effect. in the top right corner, select the midi instrument track that has your organ plugin loaded onto it (set that track to output=none) as the side chain input. record enable both tracks, so that they both receive midi from your keyboard.
phew.

 

[michael fogarty]

yup, so apologies for my poorly worded initial post. drawing the speed into the track automation works fine, but i want to be able to use the mod wheel or the sustain pedal. i saw that bit in the manual and had a root around the settings in kontakt and saw that there's a setting to allow it to output incoming cc data, but it made no difference. what confused me was i removed kontakt from the instrument track, so waterfall was the only plugin on the track and it still didn't respond to mod wheel changes. i then tried it in ableton and it worked perfectly if i sent midi directly to waterfall from a second midi in, effectively bypassing kontakt, which now seems like it has no midi through.

solution -

ok so i found out how to do it - load waterfall into a midi instrument slot as a midi controlled effect. in the top right corner, select the midi instrument track that has your organ plugin loaded onto it (set that track to output=none) as the side chain input. record enable both tracks, so that they both receive midi from your keyboard.
phew.

I am trying to grasp this. Please forgive me. I want to use my Korg CX3 with the Waterfall. (not the midi just audio.) I would use the midi modulation from my MODX to control the toggle. So I:
1. Have to load a software organ and have the audio from that output go nowhere (or volume off.)
2. Have the output go nowhere.
3. Have the controllers from the MODX7 go to the Waterfall? (how do I do that?)

I don't understand completely. Please speak slowly and clearly. LOL!

 

[simeon]

you don't say which daw you're using and i only know how to do it in Logic, but because the waterfall has to be loaded as a "midi controlled effect" audio gets into it via the "side chain input" of the plugin. you'll have to check in your daw how you do that. select your organ audio track as the side chain input and mute the audio track so you don't hear both at the same time. if you're using Logic, i can take some screenshots to help.

 

[michael fogarty]

hi. I am using Cakewalk and Pro Tools but want to do it in Cakewalk on this project. I would really appreciate this if you could take the time.

 

[simeon]

like i said in my previous reply, i only know how to do it in Logic. i don't know anything about cakewalk. maybe you could look online and find out how to use a plugin side chain in cakewalk, or someone who does use cakewalk could chime in and help you.

 

[GEE REC]

Hi! I'm using logic and use Waterfall on a bus containing audio tracks with organ, I can change the Leslie speed using the automation without problems, but not with the modulation wheel, any suggestion on how to make the mod wheel change the speed? thank you

 

[simeon]

Hi! I'm using logic and use Waterfall on a bus containing audio tracks with organ, I can change the Leslie speed using the automation without problems, but not with the modulation wheel, any suggestion on how to make the mod wheel change the speed? thank you

i posted the solution above in post #4

 

[GEE REC]

i posted the solution above in post #4

Hi! I’ve been reading your solution with great interest, but since I use Waterfall on a bus with audio tracks and not a plugin it does not seem to work for my configuration, any idea how I could make it work? Many thanks

 

[Bear-Faced Cow]

Hi! I’ve been reading your solution with great interest, but since I use Waterfall on a bus with audio tracks and not a plugin it does not seem to work for my configuration, any idea how I could make it work? Many thanks

In Logic it is as he noted: Instantiate Rotary as a MIDI controlled instrument on the instrument track and side chain the bus or aux track into it. That is the best way if you want to control it with the mod wheel.

jord

 

[GEE REC]

In Logic it is as he noted: Instantiate Rotary as a MIDI controlled instrument on the instrument track and side chain the bus or aux track into it. That is the best way if you want to control it with the mod wheel.

jord

Thank you jord! Please can you explain how to side chain the bus or aux track into the instrument track?

 

[simeon]

if the waterfall is on an aux, you'll need to create a track for the aux and then write the speed changes in as automation. i don't know why you would want to use it as an aux track though. you should create an instrument track and load the plugin as a midi controlled effect on that track. you will them be able to use your modwheel to change speed. the plugin receives audio via it's sidechain input. you don't say what daw you're using, so it's impossible to help you more than that, sorry
this seems to be a difficult problem for some, so i could make a short video on how to do it in logic. if someone knows how to do it in luna, perhaps they could also make a video and post it here?

 

[Bear-Faced Cow]

Thank you jord! Please can you explain how to side chain the bus or aux track into the instrument track?

Picture's worth a thousand words...



jord

 

[GEE REC]

Picture's worth a thousand words...

View attachment 19169

jord

Thanks Jord, but my plugin does not show "side chain" as yours, any idea why ?

 

[GEE REC]

if the waterfall is on an aux, you'll need to create a track for the aux and then write the speed changes in as automation. i don't know why you would want to use it as an aux track though. you should create an instrument track and load the plugin as a midi controlled effect on that track. you will them be able to use your modwheel to change speed. the plugin receives audio via it's sidechain input. you don't say what daw you're using, so it's impossible to help you more than that, sorry
this seems to be a difficult problem for some, so i could make a short video on how to do it in logic. if someone knows how to do it in luna, perhaps they could also make a video and post it here?

Thanks, I am using Logic, I use Waterfall on a bus track or audio track because I use it for audio recordings of Hammond organ I recorded via line out of the organ, I don't know how to manage to side chain the Waterfall plugin ?

Even when I assign Waterfall on an instrument track on Logic, the mod wheel won't change the Leslie speed even though it's assigned on the plugin, how come ?

Thanks for your help

 

[Bear-Faced Cow]

Thanks Jord, but my plugin does not show "side chain" as yours, any idea why ?

this is why…

Thanks, I am using Logic, I use Waterfall on a bus track or audio track because I use it for audio recordings of Hammond organ I recorded via line out of the organ

Bus and audio tracks do not receive MIDI information. The rotary plug-in has to be on an instrument track AS the instrument. Then you will see the side chain drop down and will be able to control the plug-in using the mod wheel.

jord

 

[Bear-Faced Cow]

Even when I assign Waterfall on an instrument track on Logic, the mod wheel won't change the Leslie speed even though it's assigned on the plugin, how come ?

it sounds like you are instantiating the plug-in as an audio effect. The rotary has to be instantiated as an instrument.

jord

 

[GEE REC]

this is why…



Bus and audio tracks do not receive MIDI information. The rotary plug-in has to be on an instrument track AS the instrument. Then you will see the side chain drop down and will be able to control the plug-in using the mod wheel.

jord

Too bad, l’ll keep doing it manually with the automation then … thanks a lot for your help