What’s the best way to…?

[Rainflower]

How do I ….Tell a band that I’m not going to do any more editing and mixing on their project because they suck? Without hurting their feelings….?

I recorded a band a few weeks ago. It was their first time doing a recording. After spending more than a few hours editing and mixing, I realize that : the drummer has extremely lazy feet and hands; the bass player plays most notes in the wrong place; the singer sings through his nose and has proclaimed that he has been classically trained…The guitarist put on the most solid performance, timing wise..

I was just wondering if this has happened to anyone else and how they got on with it…

 

[UA_User]

I'm so, so sorry. So very sorry.

 

[hotspot]

This can happen from time to time. I would always let a band that I don't even know play a few songs in front of me before I do anything.
Or listen to a couple of demoes in preparation for the first date.
I usually always have a preliminary talk before any sessions are done in the studio. I want to get to know the people, their status and their expectations.
This can also be a point at which I decide not to work with them (yet). A little pre-qualification helps you with your part.

What you do now depends on what your relationship with them is like.
Are they nice people who are willing to learn and are fun to work with?
Then I would be open and honest. Get them together, sit down for a few minutes and listen together to what you've done so far. It's good to let them describe their impressions first.
Then I would openly name the individual problems, always in a matter-of-fact way without embarrassing anyone.
Sometimes it helps to arrange a later date after the band has been back in the rehearsal room for a while and worked on the problems.

If money has been paid in advance, you can offer to keep it as a deposit for further activities.
It's not really your problem, don't make it your problem.

If the people are unreasonable and full of themselves, I would simply say, sorry guys, it's not going to work out with us, here you have part of the money back.
It really depends on the specific situation and your relationship with the band.

But honesty, openness and objectivity are always the best way to get something like this across. It also emphasises your expert status.

Which I've already done, finish anyway, take the money with me and agree that I won't be named anywhere as a reference. In exceptional cases, because this solution is actually not good. Physical pain when mixing is not affordable

 

[David MacNeill]

But honesty, openness and objectivity are always the best way to get something like this across. It also emphasises your expert status.

Excellent advice!

 

[UA_User]

If the songs suck, move on with your life. Flush it down the toilet. Stay friendly with the one decent player, they'll be around with another band later possibly.

If the songs are good (pretty much certain to be untrue nowadays), might be worth fixing it up.

 

[UA User]

How do I ….Tell a band that I’m not going to do any more editing and mixing on their project because they suck? Without hurting their feelings….?

I recorded a band a few weeks ago. It was their first time doing a recording. After spending more than a few hours editing and mixing, I realize that : the drummer has extremely lazy feet and hands; the bass player plays most notes in the wrong place; the singer sings through his nose and has proclaimed that he has been classically trained…The guitarist put on the most solid performance, timing wise..

I was just wondering if this has happened to anyone else and how they got on with it…

Always a bad sign when another musician in the band has better time than the drummer.

 

[UA_User]

Always a bad sign when another musician in the band has better time than the drummer.

LMAO. Who here hasn't lived this? Show of hands? (sound of crickets) no one?

 

[Rainflower]

This can happen from time to time. I would always let a band that I don't even know play a few songs in front of me before I do anything.

What you do now depends on what your relationship with them is like.
Are they nice people who are willing to learn and are fun to work with?
Then I would be open and honest. Get them together, sit down for a few minutes and listen together to what you've done so far. It's good to let them describe their impressions first.
Then I would openly name the individual problems, always in a matter-of-fact way without embarrassing anyone.
Sometimes it helps to arrange a later date after the band has been back in the rehearsal room for a while and worked on the problems.

If money has been paid in advance, you can offer to keep it as a deposit for further activities.
It's not really your problem, don't make it your problem.

If the people are unreasonable and full of themselves, I would simply say, sorry guys, it's not going to work out with us, here you have part of the money back.
It really depends on the specific situation and your relationship with the band.

But honesty, openness and objectivity are always the best way to get something like this across. It also emphasises your expert status.

This is how I feel about it. They are a good, polite bunch of young adults. I feel we have honest communication. I had the singer and bassist come back in and redo their parts a few times to get the best performances..the drums, are in need of complete replacement. I’ve already discussed this replacement with them and they are fine with it. However, to me it doesn’t sound right. …

I think I am going to take all the original tracks and just mix a quick demo-style recording and have them listen to their raw, unedited performances and see if they might come back at a later point in time after practicing a bit.

Thanks for the advice! It is much appreciated!

 

[hotspot]

They are a good, polite bunch of young adults. I feel we have honest communication

A good starting point to continue working on it.
Nobody is born with perfect skills.
It's only difficult with the drummer; depending on his or her personality, that may be the weak link that never gets fixed.

 

[UA_User]

This is how I feel about it. They are a good, polite bunch of young adults. I feel we have honest communication. I had the singer and bassist come back in and redo their parts a few times to get the best performances..the drums, are in need of complete replacement. I’ve already discussed this replacement with them and they are fine with it. However, to me it doesn’t sound right. …

I think I am going to take all the original tracks and just mix a quick demo-style recording and have them listen to their raw, unedited performances and see if they might come back at a later point in time after practicing a bit.

Thanks for the advice! It is much appreciated!

I get it. Just hope you're getting paid enough for this.

Best not even to go down the "fixing" rabbit hole with bands who can't play. Record them as is. make the rough chaotic tempo tracks at least sound good as far as processing goes, and they should be happy.

If the songs are some sort of special (again, not even a thing anymore... never happens) then by all means, go full ruthless, fire the drummer, produce the shit out of it, fix the broken arrangements, and hell negotiate points on it so you get some on the back end (well deserved) when they become world famous. But lets be real, bands and "making in big" arent a thing now.

 

[UA User]

negotiate points on it so you get some on the back end (well deserved) when they become world famous.

That’s an interesting topic. I remember hearing Steve Albini say he was (for ethical reasons) opposed to receiving anymore money from bands he recorded after the record was done.

 

[UA_User]

That’s an interesting topic. I remember hearing Steve Albini say he was (for ethical reasons) opposed to receiving anymore money from bands he recorded after the record was done.

I think he's right in principle. But some things stood no chance if it wasnt for someone fixing it.

 

[hotspot]

That’s an interesting topic. I remember hearing Steve Albini say he was (for ethical reasons) opposed to receiving anymore money from bands he recorded after the record was done.

That's actually normal, isn't it?
When the album is finished, I've already received all the money I've earned for it.
As long as I haven't contributed to it artistically, it's a simple service that I've provided and been paid for.

 

[UA User]

That's actually normal, isn't it?
When the album is finished, I've already received all the money I've earned for it.
As long as I haven't contributed to it artistically, it's a simple service that I've provided and been paid for.

That is normal AFAIK. But apparently Steve Albini knew of engineers who got a cut of album sales or something like that.

 

[UA_User]

That's actually normal, isn't it?
When the album is finished, I've already received all the money I've earned for it.
As long as I haven't contributed to it artistically, it's a simple service that I've provided and been paid for.

nah, "points" are a real thing. Like, producers get Royalities on the songs etc. Probably justified in some cases, but not in others. Essentially co-writing credits, in a way.

 

[Matt Hepworth]

It's much harder this long after. If something's that rough you need to let them know that "editing helps, but the parts just aren't quite tight enough to turn into something that can compete." Remind them "we don't want something that sounds like it's stitched together, we want something that's awesome. I think this kind of song needs to be extra tight in order to compete, and that kind of tightness requires tighter playing. Remember, we're not aiming for okay, we're aiming for awesome."

Something like that.

 

[UA_User]

It's much harder this long after. If something's that rough you need to let them know that "editing helps, but the parts just aren't quite tight enough to turn into something that can compete." Remind them "we don't want something that sounds like it's stitched together, we want something that's awesome. I think this kind of song needs to be extra tight in order to compete, and that kind of tightness requires tighter playing. Remember, we're not aiming for okay, we're aiming for awesome."

Something like that.

^^^

Also, bands like this, warts and all, in a way sound better with the organic racket they make live. So just trying to recreate that works out ok. Lots of compressor slamming, some room slapping (UAD ocean way or sound city really good for this). Back in the tape days, just crush the tape into the red, problem solved. Now, have to kind of create that, processing-wise.

Also, I'm intoxicated, so if this could sound embarrassing as heck tomorrow. Good luck!

 

[UA User]

How do I ….Tell a band that I’m not going to do any more editing and mixing on their project because they suck? Without hurting their feelings….?

I recorded a band a few weeks ago. It was their first time doing a recording. After spending more than a few hours editing and mixing, I realize that : the drummer has extremely lazy feet and hands; the bass player plays most notes in the wrong place; the singer sings through his nose and has proclaimed that he has been classically trained…The guitarist put on the most solid performance, timing wise..

I was just wondering if this has happened to anyone else and how they got on with it…

Did the band record to a click? And if so, were they accustomed to playing with a click?

 

[hotspot]

Like, producers get Royalities on the songs etc

Sure, but is it what we talk here about? The role of an engineer is different from that of a producer or even a co-writer.
Recording, mixing and mastering are services. They have a price that has to be paid. Whether it ends up being a flop or the band hits the big time has nothing to do with it.

 

[chrisharbin]

How do I ….Tell a band that I’m not going to do any more editing and mixing on their project because they suck? Without hurting their feelings….?

I recorded a band a few weeks ago. It was their first time doing a recording. After spending more than a few hours editing and mixing, I realize that : the drummer has extremely lazy feet and hands; the bass player plays most notes in the wrong place; the singer sings through his nose and has proclaimed that he has been classically trained…The guitarist put on the most solid performance, timing wise..

I was just wondering if this has happened to anyone else and how they got on with it…

5 million times. It's tough, but sometimes you just have to pull the bandaid off.