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what type of use is there in using the LA2A and 1176 2gether
- Thread starter keano
- Start date
I occasionally use a couple compressor in series; it doesn't have to result in a flat / lifeless mess. Especially if you don't drive each very hard, say, less than 1 or 2 dB GR per stage.
Here are some ideas:
Put a snare through the 1167 to get it nice and snappy (maybe even crunchy)
then feed the snare off to a drum sub-mix that's processed with the LA2A to glue together and make more present.
On a vocal track, put it through the 1167 since you can control the attack and release, this just to smooth it a little, then through the LA2A to warm it and add character.
Since they have their unique character, you can play with the order and which one is doing a light smoothing and which is driving the character.
The thing about each of them is that you have to drive them really hard before they start pancaking the sound.
Here are some ideas:
Put a snare through the 1167 to get it nice and snappy (maybe even crunchy)
then feed the snare off to a drum sub-mix that's processed with the LA2A to glue together and make more present.
On a vocal track, put it through the 1167 since you can control the attack and release, this just to smooth it a little, then through the LA2A to warm it and add character.
Since they have their unique character, you can play with the order and which one is doing a light smoothing and which is driving the character.
The thing about each of them is that you have to drive them really hard before they start pancaking the sound.
rimbaud234
Member
I use those two in line for vocals. Amazing.
giovanniroma
Member
sometime i compress do eq and then recopress
Another thing to remember is that when you compress multiple times in series, the ratios become multiplied, not added:
So a comp @ 12:1 into a comp at 2:1 would have a final ratio of 24, which will limit the peaks pretty heavily.
The 1176 is great at catching peaks and adding some presence, and the 2A is great at very smooth controlled vocal compression. Try experimenting with the 1176 @ 4-12:1 taking of 2-4dB of peaks (less gain reduction for higher ratios, but it all depends on the music) and then the LA-2A in comp. mode taking off another 2-3dB on louder passages.
Compressing like this usually seems to take a small amount of high end out of the signal (depends on the comp), so try using the Pultec after to add some 10, 12, or 16kHz. You also might want to experiment with high-passing the vocal or EQing out some low end pre-compression, so that the compressors won't be reacting strongly to less important frequencies in the vocal track.
The more experience I gain, and the more I experiment, the more I am finding that in at least 75% of the cases having 2 or more processors working a little is much better than using one heavy-handed. This applies to compression/limiting, EQing, and with time-based processing. Sometimes you will only want to run the signal through one EQ or comp, going for a strong pumping/squashed or filtered effect, or in a purist recording when you want to keep the signal path as clean as possible (running through the least amount of gear)...or in the case where the material was recorded very well and only needs very little (or no) help.
Another example, regarding EQ: say you want a certain warm tone/color on the vocal that would sound great, but is not natural. Instead of using a lot of EQ adding low-mids or altering the upper-mids, use a strongly colored tube pre to add a bit of this, then pick a compressor that slightly colors the signal this way too. Now you might be able to EQ a lot less or not have to EQ at all. Sorry, by now I am kind of rambling and getting off topic. I like Guiness.
So a comp @ 12:1 into a comp at 2:1 would have a final ratio of 24, which will limit the peaks pretty heavily.
The 1176 is great at catching peaks and adding some presence, and the 2A is great at very smooth controlled vocal compression. Try experimenting with the 1176 @ 4-12:1 taking of 2-4dB of peaks (less gain reduction for higher ratios, but it all depends on the music) and then the LA-2A in comp. mode taking off another 2-3dB on louder passages.
Compressing like this usually seems to take a small amount of high end out of the signal (depends on the comp), so try using the Pultec after to add some 10, 12, or 16kHz. You also might want to experiment with high-passing the vocal or EQing out some low end pre-compression, so that the compressors won't be reacting strongly to less important frequencies in the vocal track.
The more experience I gain, and the more I experiment, the more I am finding that in at least 75% of the cases having 2 or more processors working a little is much better than using one heavy-handed. This applies to compression/limiting, EQing, and with time-based processing. Sometimes you will only want to run the signal through one EQ or comp, going for a strong pumping/squashed or filtered effect, or in a purist recording when you want to keep the signal path as clean as possible (running through the least amount of gear)...or in the case where the material was recorded very well and only needs very little (or no) help.
Another example, regarding EQ: say you want a certain warm tone/color on the vocal that would sound great, but is not natural. Instead of using a lot of EQ adding low-mids or altering the upper-mids, use a strongly colored tube pre to add a bit of this, then pick a compressor that slightly colors the signal this way too. Now you might be able to EQ a lot less or not have to EQ at all. Sorry, by now I am kind of rambling and getting off topic. I like Guiness.
Any tips on dealing with the breaths using compression chains like this?
Whilst I can get the vocal sitting happily, the breaths start to get a bit out of hand.
At the moment I cheat by running a copy of the vocal track pre-compression, and edit the two parts together - muting out the breaths from the compressed track and mute everything apart from the breaths on the 'natural' track.
It works extremely well, but is of course a bit labour intensive.
And I'd rather not gate them completely, of course...
?
Whilst I can get the vocal sitting happily, the breaths start to get a bit out of hand.
At the moment I cheat by running a copy of the vocal track pre-compression, and edit the two parts together - muting out the breaths from the compressed track and mute everything apart from the breaths on the 'natural' track.
It works extremely well, but is of course a bit labour intensive.
And I'd rather not gate them completely, of course...
?
Yes as an insert, usually. There are some tricks that you can play, where you bus the uncompressed signal to the mains and then do send to the compressor chain, then you can blend them to taste, the compressed signal can give you the beafy sound and then the uncompressed can will pop up to give you real dynamics on the louder parts.keano said:
Another idea is to do a pre-compressor send to a big reverb so that the louder parts get more reverb and the lower levels are more dry.
Lots of ideas once you start thinking about it.
Dude this is awesome info!!! Keep it coming. I am a VO actor who, because of the Pandemic needed to finally buy a home setup for recording. Before I would audition in my agent's studio. Needless to say, I didn't realize how much I didn't know about the tech side of things. In about 8 weeks I have gone from owning nothing and knowing nothing, to buying a DBX 286s and Scarlett solo(which worked nicely) with a Neuman 103, and currently have upgraded to an Apollo Twin X. I am using the 1176 and LA2A together, but I am still learning about compression settings especially "ratios"...so cheers!
Very old thread, but tried and true combo of LA2A/1176 is alive and well.
I like the LA2A first. No ratio. No attack. No release. Turn it until you get a couple dB of movement regularly. This will sound good, but increases the perceived transient, which we don't want. 1176 comes in here. Fast attack (between noon and 5) and fastest release (5 'o'clock). 4:1. This should only be coming on occasionally for a couple dBs.
Thanks again, but I have a question or two, and please forgive my ignorance. The LA2A has two knobs..Gain, Peak Reduction. When you say no ratio, attack, release, how does that relate to the knobs. And when you say "Turn it until..couple db movement.." which knob is "It"? I am very excited to try this...I was using them in the other order. The 1176 first and then the LA2A after. But all the info I am getting is off the internet, and people have many varying opinions and styles. But I need to learn about transients etc. Just because my ear thinks it sounds better, a more professionally trained ear might not think so. Are you a sound engineer? Anyway, my wife has me watching Netflix, but tomorrow morning I will definitely tinker with your ideas. Thanks again.
djangodeadman
Active Member
I assume he means that, since there are no settings for ratio, attack or release on the LA2A, you do not need to worry about them.
First adjust the Gain Reduction knob until the meter shows the required amount of gain reduction. Then adjust the Gain knob until the compressed and bypassed signals are at the same level.
First adjust the Gain Reduction knob until the meter shows the required amount of gain reduction. Then adjust the Gain knob until the compressed and bypassed signals are at the same level.
Wow thanks for the info. 2 Questions, and again forgive my ignorance. I have been using the 1176 first and then the LA2A. I have basically been playing with different unison preamps(610-B/Neve1073/SSL Channel strip) and then adding...1176, LA2A, Pultec EQ, and then either the Fairchild or the Studer Tape to glue it all together. So my questions are...1) Sometimes when I adjust the LA2A's Gain reduction knob, even all the way up, it barely moves the meter when other times it starts moving sooner. Why is this? I am assuming that my settings for the 1176 before it are not correct. I usually set the LA2A so the meter just barely moves a few clicks. 2) when you say set the Gain and Gain reduction at the same level, do you mean the numbers on the Knobs should be the same, and if not, how do you tell they are at the same level. Thanks again for the helpful info...Cheers!
djangodeadman
Active Member
I can’t really answer your first question, because I’ve not used the LA2A in that context. I’m sure that someone else may be able to.
As to your second question, you should use your ears to tell you when the bypassed and compressed signals sound to be at the same level. By its very nature a compressor turns down the level of a signal and many compressors have a make-up gain control to compensate for this. On the LA2A, the Gain knob provides the make-up gain. Use the Peak Reduction knob to achieve the required degree of compression (ie level reduction), then compare the compressed signal to the uncompressed, by toggling the on/off switch, and adjust the Gain knob until the two signals sound to be at the same level.