All right, here's the story. I'm looking to put together a system from scratch based on a sweetwater creation station PC with 5 PCI slots. I'm thinking of putting a RME Mutiface/desktop bundle in one slot. It's the Creation Station Pro with a 3.2 Ghz CPU and one gig of RAM that I plan to upgrade to at least 2. Question 1: Is that enough to run 4 UAD-1 Cards? would I even want to? Question 2: What DAW would play the nicest in this system? My specific goals are live audio recording with enough midi for horn parts and drum loops in place of click tracks for tracking. Thanks for any help you can give me
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which DAW to get
- Thread starter lance
- Start date
Tony Ostinato
Active Member
Uad-1 gets the most testing in nuendo and sx, and thats where most people are using it.
i think going with samplitude would be expensive, risky, and buggy.
i think going with samplitude would be expensive, risky, and buggy.
Trebor Flow 2
Established Member
Tony O
I am considering my next move as it's time to dump Logic 5.51 PC for obvious reasons.
Q. In reality does Nuendo sound better than Cubase SX or are the audio engines indentical as Steinberg would have me believe. I don't do music to picture only music production.
Thanks for your thoughts
Trebor
I use
RME Multiface
1x Poco
2x UAD-1
2.4 GHz P4
2GB ram
I am considering my next move as it's time to dump Logic 5.51 PC for obvious reasons.
Q. In reality does Nuendo sound better than Cubase SX or are the audio engines indentical as Steinberg would have me believe. I don't do music to picture only music production.
Thanks for your thoughts
Trebor
I use
RME Multiface
1x Poco
2x UAD-1
2.4 GHz P4
2GB ram
With all due respect you're wrong to think that. At least as far as being risky or buggy. I've been using Samp for the past 6 years and it's been pretty much rock solid from day one. Sounds amazing and works fine with my UAD plugins. And I know I'm not the only one with this experience.Tony Ostinato said:
You're right about one thing, it's not cheap. :wink:
Trebor Flow 2
Established Member
Thanks Akis - that's good to know as SX is quite a bit cheaper.
Trebor
Trebor
I use SX and it works for me, price and funtionality. Just like that. I know what I have and it works for me. Good luck on whatever you choose. Sorry for breaking others' balls, I just can't stand blind comments being made about a product the person has little experience with.
Trebor Flow 2, What do you think of the multiface? As far as programs go, I'd like to hear more if possible. I checked them both out( SX and Samplitude that is) but you can only get so far on a company's website. Not exactly objective. Also the UAD-1 cards; how many could I, should I get? Thanks for all the feed back
Tony Ostinato
Active Member
I dont really believe different DAWs sound different, ever since the awesome daw sum cd sampler and also this article:
http://www.eqmag.com/story.asp?sectionc ... ycode=7672
Samplitude users report problems after every new revision of the uad-1 software, and after every new revision of samplitude itself, and many time since there just arent that many people using samplitude those problems go unanswered, such as here:
http://www.chrismilne.com/uadforums/vie ... samplitude
i think its worth considering anyways, before you take the road less travelled.
http://www.eqmag.com/story.asp?sectionc ... ycode=7672
Samplitude users report problems after every new revision of the uad-1 software, and after every new revision of samplitude itself, and many time since there just arent that many people using samplitude those problems go unanswered, such as here:
http://www.chrismilne.com/uadforums/vie ... samplitude
i think its worth considering anyways, before you take the road less travelled.
Trebor Flow 2
Established Member
Hi Lance
I can recommend the Multiface without a question, it runs perfectly with 2xUAD and 1x PoCo and that's with Logic 5.51 on PC as the host! No small feat I can tell you, Logic is so fussy.
Also I had a Apoggee Rossetta 200 in the studio for a week and in BLIND A/B testing no one could consistently pick the Rossetta over the Multiface!
and .... many others over on Gearsluts have said that they found the Rossetta to have nothing special over the RME converters - they are amazing value for money and I use a Blue Bottle with mine without any worry of quality.
Choosing a program is much more down to the way you like to work - but bear in mind Steinberg and RME have been \"sleeping with each other\" for many years now and the Nuendo sound cards where just badged up Multifaces, so the RME is a dream inside Cubase/Nuendo.
Trebor
I can recommend the Multiface without a question, it runs perfectly with 2xUAD and 1x PoCo and that's with Logic 5.51 on PC as the host! No small feat I can tell you, Logic is so fussy.
Also I had a Apoggee Rossetta 200 in the studio for a week and in BLIND A/B testing no one could consistently pick the Rossetta over the Multiface!
and .... many others over on Gearsluts have said that they found the Rossetta to have nothing special over the RME converters - they are amazing value for money and I use a Blue Bottle with mine without any worry of quality.
Choosing a program is much more down to the way you like to work - but bear in mind Steinberg and RME have been \"sleeping with each other\" for many years now and the Nuendo sound cards where just badged up Multifaces, so the RME is a dream inside Cubase/Nuendo.
Trebor
You should defenately check out samplitude, they have a demo version for download on their website.
This programm is rock, rock solid and really well layed out. To be honest, this is the first daw working really flawlessly here. They use a dongle but so does steinberg.
On the specific forum (owners only - what I personally find strange) you won't read much about major problems and always get (near instant) help from the developers.
If you want to read about major problems go and visit the steinberg or (even worse) the sonar forums.
In addition (not that important but...) with samplitude you get really an usable track eq, compression, convo reverb... effects you can and will really use in your projects. I don't think you can say that about any steinberg sequenzer or sonar. Sonar on the other hand comes with the buggy, buggy v-vocal.
So believe me, at least you should take a day or two and check out the samplitude demo, it's really woth it.
best, robi
This programm is rock, rock solid and really well layed out. To be honest, this is the first daw working really flawlessly here. They use a dongle but so does steinberg.
On the specific forum (owners only - what I personally find strange) you won't read much about major problems and always get (near instant) help from the developers.
If you want to read about major problems go and visit the steinberg or (even worse) the sonar forums.
In addition (not that important but...) with samplitude you get really an usable track eq, compression, convo reverb... effects you can and will really use in your projects. I don't think you can say that about any steinberg sequenzer or sonar. Sonar on the other hand comes with the buggy, buggy v-vocal.
So believe me, at least you should take a day or two and check out the samplitude demo, it's really woth it.
best, robi
FWIW, I've been testing Sam8 and Nuendo 3.2 on the same X2 4400 dual core system to compare workflow and performance mainly. You might be surprised at the results. Short answer: I would download the Sam 8.11 demo and try it yourself. It doesn't have the rich feature set Cubase SX does (or Nuendo), or the nice GUI, but it makes up for some of that in other areas:
1) based on what I am seeing in test comparisons, MUCH better low latency performance (twice the performance as Nuendo on this system at 1.5ms latency when comparing plugin counts and large sample library-VSTi counts - separate tests);
2) object oriented effects
3) CD burning/mastering in the same app.
4) Very nice built in effects
I'll post more info after I confirm a few things with developers and other users. FWIW, my Nuendo rig has performed identically to other X2 4400 rigs in other performance tests, so my system is stable, and efficient. I am not seeing any issues with stability in Samplitude here. It's stable and very fast. I even got it to peg the cpu at 548% load. :lol: That is of no use other than understanding how it handles extreme loads. Yes, it was distorted, but Sam seems to start dropping out parts of the audio stream, softening the chacophony rather than momentarily freezing the system, which is nice - it seems smoother in handling large loads, and almost unaffected - allowing the user to back off plugin counts, adjust VIP buffers, etc. to compensate without disrupting workflow. When you are trying to get the most out of your rig, that is important.
I work in Nuendo everyday, love what I can do with it, and know it's limits, weak points and strong points quite well now. I'm just looking at the differences to determine which best suits each part of my workflow requirements, so that's my perspective in posting this.
1) based on what I am seeing in test comparisons, MUCH better low latency performance (twice the performance as Nuendo on this system at 1.5ms latency when comparing plugin counts and large sample library-VSTi counts - separate tests);
2) object oriented effects
3) CD burning/mastering in the same app.
4) Very nice built in effects
I'll post more info after I confirm a few things with developers and other users. FWIW, my Nuendo rig has performed identically to other X2 4400 rigs in other performance tests, so my system is stable, and efficient. I am not seeing any issues with stability in Samplitude here. It's stable and very fast. I even got it to peg the cpu at 548% load. :lol: That is of no use other than understanding how it handles extreme loads. Yes, it was distorted, but Sam seems to start dropping out parts of the audio stream, softening the chacophony rather than momentarily freezing the system, which is nice - it seems smoother in handling large loads, and almost unaffected - allowing the user to back off plugin counts, adjust VIP buffers, etc. to compensate without disrupting workflow. When you are trying to get the most out of your rig, that is important.
I work in Nuendo everyday, love what I can do with it, and know it's limits, weak points and strong points quite well now. I'm just looking at the differences to determine which best suits each part of my workflow requirements, so that's my perspective in posting this.
Trebor are you using the multiface with the desktop card or something else? Also, does SX have any mastering features, does it play well with the MCU? What about Nenuendo? does it offer any improvements over SX for audio recording or just post production and other applications. Is there any training programs for it like there are for Logic? Pretty much the same questons for Samplitude users. I've been checking them out as much as I can but there's only so much objectivity on a company's website. Also any other programs I should consider?
SX - if by mastering you mean CD layout & burning, no. Otherwise (eq, etc), mastering with SX is up to you and plugins/outboard gear, and for that it can work very well, though Wavelab is really designed more for mastering. Samplitude includes mastering capabilities.
Nuendo - more post features than SX (as well as network features for larger facilities), but other than that they are pretty much the same.
For tutorials, check out http://www.auxbuss.com/
IMHO, you are looking at the best options for PC. Either SX or Samplitude will cover the bases for live recording and some midi. SX might be the better choice for intense midi.
Nuendo - more post features than SX (as well as network features for larger facilities), but other than that they are pretty much the same.
For tutorials, check out http://www.auxbuss.com/
IMHO, you are looking at the best options for PC. Either SX or Samplitude will cover the bases for live recording and some midi. SX might be the better choice for intense midi.
Yeah I'm sorry about that I should have said pre mastering. I was thinking along the the lines of logic's match EQ and linear phase EQ Etc. I'll have to check out wavelabs as far as SX or Nenuendo the problem is I'm not sure what I'll be into in a few months or years or weeks for that matter. Right now I'm looking to record my own music (vintage blues) and other local acts on a budget. The thing is that a week ago I was officially retired (disabled at 30) so I'm going to have alot of time time on my hands to experiment and learn new things with audio. So i want to keep my options as open as possible. Still, at two grand, Nenuendo might cut into my Hardware budget so I want it to be worth it. Also I really want to know how good these UAD-1 cards really are. My theory is to use them as my \"outboard gear\" and be able to spend more on front end hardware(pre-amps and such.) So is that a realistic theory?
The semantics aren't really important - just wanted to be sure I was understanding and answering your question accurately. I would say SX or Samplitude are probably the best choices for what you want to do - perhaps SX if you lean towards midi or think you might; and Samplitude if you plan to go with RME hardware and want the best low latency performance. Nuendo would be overkill (in cost at least) for what you are planning to do. Samplitude's included effects are better than SX's, but with a couple of UAD-1s, that might be a moot point as you might not use included plugins for either app.
I would save the difference vs. Nuendo and put that into other gear. You can always grow into an upgrade, but it's hard to start with more than you need in DAW software, and sacrifice on gear to get audio into it.
UAD cards are a serious enhancement to any DAW. Great comps; plate 140 is very nice; delays are tempo synced now; and the mastering series are also nice - you may end up picking up something else for linear phase EQ, etc, but you at least have the option with UAD-1s alone.
I would mix and match - get one or two UAD-1s now with a good complement of plugins, and some other 3rd party native plugins to have more options as budget allows. Sonalkis has some nice plugins, as do Voxengo, and Refined Audio Metrics (3 and 10-band linear phase EQs that are very nice, though pricey).
I would save the difference vs. Nuendo and put that into other gear. You can always grow into an upgrade, but it's hard to start with more than you need in DAW software, and sacrifice on gear to get audio into it.
UAD cards are a serious enhancement to any DAW. Great comps; plate 140 is very nice; delays are tempo synced now; and the mastering series are also nice - you may end up picking up something else for linear phase EQ, etc, but you at least have the option with UAD-1s alone.
I would mix and match - get one or two UAD-1s now with a good complement of plugins, and some other 3rd party native plugins to have more options as budget allows. Sonalkis has some nice plugins, as do Voxengo, and Refined Audio Metrics (3 and 10-band linear phase EQs that are very nice, though pricey).
