Who's to Blame at United Western for Such Atrocious Recording and/or Mastering, ca 1960?

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cineescape

New Member
It remains a forever heartbreak that suites like “Hundred Days of the Dragon”, “Controlled Experiment” and other Dominic Frontiere TV music masterworks sound so bad on the only collections ever released. Might Bernie Grundman or https://www.discogs.com/artist/305083-Bob-Fisher know why some tracks on this CD album sounded so badly distorted and/or compressed?? https://www.discogs.com/release/164...e-Outer-Limits-Original-Television-Soundtrack

Indeed, this collection doesn't sound a whole lot better, at least not on my system.

Who knows how much the fault lies with Artie Becker https://www.discogs.com/artist/1041168-Artie-Becker?anv=Artie Becker&filter_anv=1 But how an “ad agency” expert ended up recording-and then even worse possibly also mastering-so much of Frontiere’s greatest TV music in one of Bill Putnam’s studios might be one of the worst tragedies in the history of the west coast recording industry. https://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2008/january/index6.html
 
Neotrope

Neotrope

Venerated Member
well, GNP is not known for releasing the highest quality sources, and a severely troubled tv production might not have taken care of the original masters for posterity
 
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cineescape

New Member
Neotrope said:
well, GNP is not known for releasing the highest quality sources, and a severely troubled tv production might not have taken care of the original masters for posterity
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The above production credits of both GNP and La La Land releases (and the latter label is known for accessing and utilizing quality sources) indicate that the sources were EMI and/or MGM-both of which were long expert at recorded music preservation. And both were eventually acquired by other equally reputable media companies. https://www.latimes.com/business/la-xpm-2011-nov-12-la-fi-ct-emi-sold-20111112-68-story.html

So, most likely the sonic damage was done to those masters during the recording and/or mastering sessions.
 
Neotrope

Neotrope

Venerated Member
cineescape said:
The above production credits of both GNP and La La Land releases (and the latter label is known for accessing and utilizing quality sources) indicate that the sources were EMI and/or MGM-both of which were long expert at recorded music preservation. And both were eventually acquired by other equally reputable media companies. https://www.latimes.com/business/la-xpm-2011-nov-12-la-fi-ct-emi-sold-20111112-68-story.html

So, most likely the sonic damage was done to those masters during the recording and/or mastering sessions.
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I've owned some crap from GNP, but of course that was way back in the late 80s, so if still in business might have different business model now.

Still, EMI and MGM might not have had well preserved copies to give GNP, the mastering might not have been done well, etc.

Do you even own UA products or just here to complain about a bad record you bought?
 
klasaine

klasaine

Hall of Fame Member
More than likely bad archiving and no actual “master” to re-master.

I did a fair amount of film and TV soundtrack work in the 80s and 90s and even when the budgets for music were relatively high, a lot of the work had to be done super quick. Plenty of stuff was tracked (and edited) let just say haphazardly.
 
C

cineescape

New Member
Neotrope said:
I've owned some crap from GNP, but of course that was way back in the late 80s, so if still in business might have different business model now.

Still, EMI and MGM might not have had well preserved copies to give GNP, the mastering might not have been done well, etc.

Do you even own UA products or just here to complain about a bad record you bought?
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You keep referring to the earlier 1993 GNP CD album release. Unlike with the 2008 La La Land 3 CD set, my ears and others at diyaudio.com do detect horrible clipping in the GNP CD; most likely due to careless digital overloading >0dbfs during the digital mastering session.

But what's at issue is that both the GNP and LL Land set-which the production notes show were made from the digitized sources-must have had excessive dynamic range compression originally applied to the analog master tapes by Artie Becker or someone in the mastering room back around 1960-61.

And, yes, this being the Unrest section of this forum, I certainly do feel justified in complaining that-unlike lots of well recorded AND mastered music that left Bill Putnam's studios-the special and unique sounds I've loved since I was 10 years old were carelessly and crudely slammed with globally applied compression. Indeed, I was so badly shocked by this when I only recently discovered that many of my favorite suites in that collection are barely enjoyable on my friend Pierre's superbly designed speakers, which I'm the process of cloning.; posts 15, 266, 15, 276. https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/beyond-the-ariel.100392/page-764

Speakers like these and the electronics we use ahead of them are designed to deliver the full dynamic range of recorded music. Dynamic range is what makes recorded music sound real. That can't happen if the original sound pressure levels of all or most sounds recorded are then smushed into being all about the same level. Contrast that with what blew Pierre and I away from a bunch of well mastered CDs with minimal and carefully applied compression-and not just the high res SACDs and 24 bit downloads. https://www.hdtracks.com/ we had also heard.
 
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cineescape

New Member
Though I was never in the Biz, as a fan of vintage movie and TV shows, I know about the budgetary pressures, deadlines and other obstacles faced by the producers and crews who created this content.

But NOBODY but a well trained and highly experienced professional audio engineer should be touching the knobs of compresors-and applying any more than least required amount to any mic channel during recording-and especially so during any mastering session. And that's because a responsible audio recording professional knows that with compression there's no undo button.
 
klasaine

klasaine

Hall of Fame Member
cineescape said:
But NOBODY but a well trained and highly experienced professional audio engineer should be touching the knobs of compressors and applying any more than least required amount
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”Should be” is the key phrase here😉.
$h1t happens.

Hindsight is always 20/20. At the time that all this stuff was/is made, nobody thinks that anyone is gonna care 50 or more years into the future. Especially back then.
 
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