Why are UA Still peddling this ancient technology?

Jake68

Member
We are the native guys right? We are people that didn't buy into the PT lie?

We are disentangling ourselves from the idea of running DSP cards and embracing Quads and Dual Quad Zeons and whatever the future brings. Which is certainly NOT a PCI Dongle.

UAD plugins sound good. But so do native ones. There is now officially absolutely no reason to bind yourself to possible hardware problems, dropouts and incompatibility with major DAW's.

There is obviously some kinda message not quite getting through here. When I buy a native plugin, I can run ANY amount of them my CPU can manage and when my CPU cant manage anymore, for the same amount as I have to spend on a UAD I CAN UPGRADE MY ENTIRE CORE SYSTEM!!..I am talking MB RAM and CPU...

Have you seen the price of PC Hardware recently?

I am ENORMOUSLY disappointed that UA hasn't yet furnished us with up to date hardware.

I have been saying this for a while, but it seems their time is running out.
 

imdrecordings

Venerated Member
So you've finally reached your breaking point. Sorry to see that.
Jake, I tried to look at your video, but the only Internet PC I have is a work laptop and it wont let me download the appropriate software to view them. This things is fk'n ancient!
How many cards do you have?
Are you still having the same problems? If so, MAN THAT SUCKS!
For me, sense there are so many great Native plugs and Samplitude has such kickass plugs, I usually start dropping in the UADs towards the end of a mix, just to see if it makes that big of a difference. Sometimes it does and other times it doesn't.

If you said, \"Are UAD-1s under powered compared to an Intel Quad core 2.66 processor?\" I'd say, \"you bet\". However they are not underpowered when it comes to being compared to their hardware DSP brethren.

There's no need to scream for new hardware, it's wasted energy, really.
Just take a nice shot of booze, smoke a jay, take a jog around the block or whatever it takes for you to see things from a fresh perspective. Or sell your card and buy a nice mic-pre. Sense you have great native stuff, go to that first and then come back to the UA stuff. Knowing that Native plugs are great too, just clears up more space for the UAD for us 4 core users.
:D
 

Horse

Established Member
Mr Kipper woke up one morning and discovered that the dream he'd been having about the Willowbark fairy had been real! Not only had his bed shrunk by 3 inches but the toast in his toaster was popping up blue now instead of a delicious crunchy brown.

On his way to tell Mrs Sandeman his good news, he stopped at the Perfect Penguin parlour to get his tail adjusted and found that 5mm tag nuts don't come from Spain anymore, but are distilled from the fluid that leaks out of ladybirds knees. But just as he was about to scratch his head, forty flying dromedaries hove into view in some kind of display that had more to do with Spring than he'd care to admit.

*Dribble*
 

Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of musical dreams fullfilled.
Jake68 said:
UAD plugins sound good. But so do native ones.
News to me. Aside from the Oxfords and the Waves API bundle, what native plug-ins are on this level?
 

boody

Established Member
I usually neglect these posts, but for one time I won't:

If you don't hear difference between the native plugs and UAD plugs, there is no single reason left to put up with a latency inducing, time limited dsp solution like UAD. Not even when they go UAD 2, 3 or 64. Save your money. Don't invest a penny in UAD. It's a lot of hassle, and you obviously don't hear something exceptional anyway.

The only reason to buy UAD plugs and put up with the limitations is if they give you something that you can't get that good with another plugin. When it benefits your music. That's why you will be using them: to shape your music.

There is a reason people still buy 1 hardware unit costing more than the complete uad system with all plugs and 4 cards. It benefits their music and they think it's worth to invest in that. They don't complain the Behringer equivalent is 100 times cheaper. They don't complain people can buy the software equivalent for 100 times cheaper with the benefit of instant recall and multiple instances.

UAD2 (and 3) will be there eventually, that's the course of evolution. More companies will get similar products if there is a market for them... in time.
If you want to shape your music today you must deal with todays solutions. You can complain about not having more advanced solutions and even get outraged that it is not given to you at the moment you have decided it is about time, sure. But please at least consider why you are taking the trouble...
 

djsynchro

Hall of Fame Member
SSL are coming out with Duende mini, you get one plug (channel strip)
you can run 16 instances (8 stereo) at 44/88 Khz halve that again for 88/96

You have to get a seperate Firewire bus going, juggle interrupts if you're unlucky, check their list for which cards play nice. There's added latency because the DSP is external, it costs 650 Euro's.

For extra money you can unlock it for double the channels, bus compressor is a paid extra too. They started making new plugs (Drumstrip) they're really expensive.

Who buys that underpowered rubbish? I will :D
 
Eric Dahlberg said:
Jake68 said:
UAD plugins sound good. But so do native ones.
News to me. Aside from the Oxfords and the Waves API bundle, what native plug-ins are on this level?
Compressors: Sonalksis SV-315, Blue Cat Dynamics, TBT Audio TLS-2095LA (free), TBT Audio Pocket Limiter, FXpansion 1176 Channel Compressor (from BFD2, you'll crap when you hear this thing)

EQ's: Electri-Q (the free Poshifopit Edition), IIEQ (pay whatever you want), Blue Cat Stereo Parametric EQ

Reverbs: IK Mulitimedia CSR, Princeton Digital 2016, Arts Acoustic Reverb

Amp Sims: Amplitube 2, Ampeg SVX, Gearbox, Revalver MKII (all better than Nigel)

Modulation Effects: Audio Damage's Fluid (flanger) & Liquid (chorus), NXTPhase, TAL Chorus (Juno 106 inspired), Monstachorus, SpinnerLE (leslie), the excellent Line 6 ones in Gearbox

Delays: Any of the PSP Delays, Audio Damage's Dub Station, Soundfonts.it GS-201 (sounds like HIS RE-201, UA's take sounds good, but suspiciously clean)

I could go on. I love my UAD1 but I'd say any of the above plugins are on the same level in terms of their sound. Now granted, they do sound different, but each UAD1 compressor sounds different than the last.

Depending on the flavor I need I could go for a UAD1 plugin or one of the above. For the record though, I don't own Revalver Mk II or Arts Acoustic Reverb, but from the demos of both, I think they beat out their UAD1 counterparts.

Also, I'd say that the FXpansion 1176 is as good or possibly even better than the UAD1 version. I say possibly better because it's hard to tell when you can ONLY try it on drums, but it sounds phenomonal. I'm hoping FXpansion releases it as a standalone effect.
 

wishingwell

Active Member
boody said:
I usually neglect these posts, but for one time I won't:

If you don't hear difference between the native plugs and UAD plugs, there is no single reason left to put up with a latency inducing, time limited dsp solution like UAD. Not even when they go UAD 2, 3 or 64. Save your money. Don't invest a penny in UAD. It's a lot of hassle, and you obviously don't hear something exceptional anyway.

The only reason to buy UAD plugs and put up with the limitations is if they give you something that you can't get that good with another plugin. When it benefits your music. That's why you will be using them: to shape your music.

There is a reason people still buy 1 hardware unit costing more than the complete uad system with all plugs and 4 cards. It benefits their music and they think it's worth to invest in that. They don't complain the Behringer equivalent is 100 times cheaper. They don't complain people can buy the software equivalent for 100 times cheaper with the benefit of instant recall and multiple instances.

UAD2 (and 3) will be there eventually, that's the course of evolution. More companies will get similar products if there is a market for them... in time.
If you want to shape your music today you must deal with todays solutions. You can complain about not having more advanced solutions and even get outraged that it is not given to you at the moment you have decided it is about time, sure. But please at least consider why you are taking the trouble...
Well spoken. If i thought i could get a complete arsenal of equivelant quality plugs elsewhere then it would not make sense for me to use the UAD-1 card or any dongled and hardware dependent plugins. I only tolerate when i see it worth it due to higher quality, if exceptional quality is'nt seen i quietly move on and go to what serves my needs best. Why tolerate if you hear no difference? Why want Uad-2/Native Uad/cpu-dsp hybrid, etc if the quality is'nt dynamite to you in a towering way? Why complain constantly on a forum if you found just as good or better solutions elsewhere? I myself would go to what works best for my studio and music.

People will quickly buy a very expensive one instance piece of hardware that ties them to maintenance fee's while taking up space and adding cables and costing more energy to use simply because the sound is great thus the benifits justify the cost, this is how many of us feel about Uad. As for computers, the average-joe computer is not all that powerfull and efficient. If you load quality plugins that are hogs it can give the same results as dsp card, especially at high quality sample-rates. And in some of our eyes a extremely powerfull computer is almost useless cause there aint much quality Native plugins anyhow for our taste to make use of the great and mighty power. Long as UA continue to be the great company it is delivering top quality at affordable price it will continue to have us as its customer base. Mostly if you find comparable quality on Native platform it has a cost as great or greater then Uad (hardware/money/etc). And finding quality on that platform is like looking for a needle in a haystack imo, some is there but so is a hellava lot of low-quality. You may find yourself doing more searching then anything. All my opinions and strong beliefs ofcourse.
 

pogo

Member
While I value the emerging quality and price point of many native plug-ins, I have to say I feel pretty screwed by having invested in them. Waves have never been anything but a headache to me. Granted, for the most part I was using them with PT LE. Stability was crap and now, I have to WUP to use a modern OS. I don't mind modest upgrade costs to support new platforms (i.e. OS upgrades...) but, UA is the only company who has kept me up to date without asking for more money. They have, by far, provided the best value for my money.

For those who have been able to maintain your plug-in investments over the years my congratulations. At this point, I will be very selective with the plugs I invest in beyond my host and UAD-1.
 

TheHopiWay

Active Member
I'm also a bit confused by those who claim native solutions that are available are the equal of UAD and then continue to rant about how UAD's pace of new hardware development is a problem.
If in fact there's equal quality native plugs in existence then unsatisfied UAD users who believe this should all sell their UAD cards, buy those great native plugs move on with their lives and frequent the appropriate forums.

I have two DAWs, one native (DP 5) and one DSP (proTools HD2). Each has a magma host card in it that I can connect to a chassis with 4 UAD cards. Both platforms interface flawlessly and the addition of the UAD \"sound\" enhances my mixes when used alongside my other TDM/Native plugs and my outboard gear.

The UAD does what it does and does it well.
Is it the \"end-all-be-all\" audio solution for everyone?
No.
But that's OK. Look at the options and use whatever works best for your needs.

IMO UAD has provided all of us (Native and TDM users alike) with some great sounding plugs at an affordable price and has, unlike MANY other companies, consistently treated it's user base fairly in regards to specials and upgrades and has tech support that is unrivaled in the business.
They deserve better than the disrespect that many here heap on them daily.
 
TheHopiWay said:
I'm also a bit confused by those who claim native solutions that are available are the equal of UAD and then continue to rant about how UAD's pace of new hardware development is a problem.
If in fact there's equal quality native plugs in existence then unsatisfied UAD users who believe this should all sell their UAD cards, buy those great native plugs move on with their lives and frequent the appropriate forums
What's confusing about having options available to you? I like some native plug-ins as much as I like the UAD1's plugins? I like having options.

At the same time there's no reason for me NOT to want a more powerful UAD card. For instance, the Fairchild may be just what a track needs, but I might also want a couple of 1073s. Pretty soon I'll be out of juice on my UAD1.

Now could I use native plugins in those places? Yeah, but they may not be the best tool for the job. Just like the UAD1 plugins may not always be the best tools for a given job.

Stop with the blind loyalty already. UA releases excellent plugins, no doubt. But there are alternatives. That doesn't mean that anyone should blindly follow one method over another. We're talking about audio, please stop treating it like religion.
 

imdrecordings

Venerated Member
Funkybot's Evil Twin said:
TheHopiWay said:
I'm also a bit confused by those who claim native solutions that are available are the equal of UAD and then continue to rant about how UAD's pace of new hardware development is a problem.
If in fact there's equal quality native plugs in existence then unsatisfied UAD users who believe this should all sell their UAD cards, buy those great native plugs move on with their lives and frequent the appropriate forums
What's confusing about having options available to you? I like some native plug-ins as much as I like the UAD1's plugins? I like having options.

At the same time there's no reason for me NOT to want a more powerful UAD card. For instance, the Fairchild may be just what a track needs, but I might also want a couple of 1073s. Pretty soon I'll be out of juice on my UAD1.

Now could I use native plugins in those places? Yeah, but they may not be the best tool for the job. Just like the UAD1 plugins may not always be the best tools for a given job.

Stop with the blind loyalty already. UA releases excellent plugins, no doubt. But there are alternatives. That doesn't mean that anyone should blindly follow one method over another. We're talking about audio, please stop treating it like religion.
Freeze or bounce.
 
Sure, it's an option, but I'd prefer not to have to freeze or bounce though, and I'm sure most people would agree. I mean, that is why so many people around here own more than one card right?

I'd like a more powerful card to the run all these excellent plugins (or even better, native) but I've given up whining about it. UA will put something out when they're ready. I'm sure it will also be an excellent product. I just don't care for people assuming that UA makes the ONLY good plugins around and that software that runs on a DSP card magically sounds better [almost by default] than software that runs on a native CPU.
 

wishingwell

Active Member
Native cpu is'nt much different, again it depends on wich Native plugins your running and just how far above average your computer is cause likewise you can still run out of juice to with it. And Uad has some plugins that are more efficient aswell. As for options you are right it is good to have them but imo part of the reasons is because all platforms have their weak points. Uad is not meant to be a 'end all be all' or to replace a computer, this is why it attatches to computer and is not stand-alone, Uad is meant to suppliment other options, If you have other high quality options then you may require less Uad's in a mix. Many of us don't depend solely on Uad so we don't expect it to do it all. I don't feel attacking Universal Audio or any developer that you feel has blessed your arsenal is all that good. I'm greatfull for what they've made possible at the present moment rather then hold on to promises and wishfull thinking like some do for other technology. None of us rejects a uad-2 and i believe all want it but is it right to accuse a company of wrong doing when no evidence of such exists? Uad-2 may have not been released yet simply because its difficult to develope and is not finished yet, is UA wrong for that? In actuality we all have what we paid for and they owe us nothing else. You buy a product for what it is in its current state, you don't know even if a company will be around tomorrow.
 

imdrecordings

Venerated Member
Funkybot's Evil Twin said:
Sure, it's an option, but I'd prefer not to have to freeze or bounce though, and I'm sure most people would agree. I mean, that is why so many people around here own more than one card right?

I'd like a more powerful card to the run all these excellent plugins (or even better, native) but I've given up whining about it. UA will put something out when they're ready. I'm sure it will also be an excellent product. I just don't care for people assuming that UA makes the ONLY good plugins around and that software that runs on a DSP card magically sounds better [almost by default] than software that runs on a native CPU.
I can agree with you there. There really aren't "better" plugs out there IMO, meaning I don't weigh UA plugs against their competitors thinking they sound better without A/Bing. These things are too subjective. It's all about what's usable and what isn't.
 

Tony Ostinato

Active Member
I doubt that the TEC award was biased in favor of dsp cards at all.

I think it was purely quality and i think they were right.


as far as a new dsp card wantings BORING wanting is easy doing is hard.

thats why noone else is doing.
 

TheHopiWay

Active Member
Funkybot's Evil Twin said:
TheHopiWay said:
I'm also a bit confused by those who claim native solutions that are available are the equal of UAD and then continue to rant about how UAD's pace of new hardware development is a problem.
If in fact there's equal quality native plugs in existence then unsatisfied UAD users who believe this should all sell their UAD cards, buy those great native plugs move on with their lives and frequent the appropriate forums
What's confusing about having options available to you? I like some native plug-ins as much as I like the UAD1's plugins? I like having options.

At the same time there's no reason for me NOT to want a more powerful UAD card. For instance, the Fairchild may be just what a track needs, but I might also want a couple of 1073s. Pretty soon I'll be out of juice on my UAD1.

Now could I use native plugins in those places? Yeah, but they may not be the best tool for the job. Just like the UAD1 plugins may not always be the best tools for a given job.

Stop with the blind loyalty already. UA releases excellent plugins, no doubt. But there are alternatives. That doesn't mean that anyone should blindly follow one method over another. We're talking about audio, please stop treating it like religion.
I truly don't mean to treat it like a religion.
I own about 40k worth of UAD alternatives in hardware and software so it's not as if I'm unaware that options are a good thing.
Truth be told I was making a fine living as a mix engineer 25 years before UAD ever released a software product and if they disappeared tomorrow my life would continue pretty much the same.

My point is that the whining and immature petulant outbreaks on this forum regarding the current status of UAD are pointless, boring and annoying.
It's sad to see how it's all effected the vibe of this place.

I'll shut up now, delete the bookmark for this site and take a time out so that you can continue to rant amongst yourselves.

Bye.
 

boody

Established Member
TheHopiWay said:
I'll shut up now, delete the bookmark for this site and take a time out so that you can continue to rant amongst yourselves.

Bye.
Nah, please don't let the evil twins scare you away; plenty of reasonable folks here. I usually ignore these posts, it's the most reasonable thing to do...

It really is this simple:
-it is a fact UAD1 is useful for people who want the sound of UA's plugins.
-it is a reasonable assumption that UA is working on a more versatile powerful sollution
-it is unreasonable to assume they are doing you wrong by not giving it to you now

Now please flame me to ashes if you don't agree, but I'm using less and less plugins, feeling more comfortable with recordings and my ideas about mixing music (as opposed to overcompensating with effects). I have 2 cards and only have capacity problems when I want to add a Neve comp on an almost completed mix. Then I bounce some and put it on. No big deal. The more I focus on music, the less power I really need...
 

Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of musical dreams fullfilled.
Also, I'd say that the FXpansion 1176 is as good or possibly even better than the UAD1 version. I say possibly better because it's hard to tell when you can ONLY try it on drums, but it sounds phenomonal. I'm hoping FXpansion releases it as a standalone effect.
It wouldn't surprise me. Angus is a mad genius. That TBT guy does some amazing stuff, as well. I'll have to disagree with you on most of the plugs you listed but I'll be the first one to acknowledge that not all of UA's efforts are at the top of the game.
 
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