• Welcome to the General Discussion forum for UAD users!

    Please note that this forum is user-run, although we're thrilled to have so much contribution from Drew, Will, and other UA folks!

    Feel free to discuss both UAD and non-UAD related subjects!

    1) Please do not post technical issues here. Please use our UAD Support Forums instead.

    2) Please do not post complaints here. Use the Unrest Forum instead. They have no place in the the General Discussion forum.

    Threads posted in the wrong forum will be moved, so if you don't see your thread here anymore, please look in the correct forum.

    Lastly, please be respectful.

Interesting Video on How CL-1B Was Created

caustix

Venerated Member
Interesting to see how these guys go about writing our software [plugins].

[video=youtube;JOZrnM5lDQo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOZrnM5lDQo[/video]

And an interesting article on the skills required to write this stuff.

Suppose it helps see "value" in the software maybe most of us take for granted. It actually takes a lot of time, serious amount of learning and a lot of brain bashing. And to think piracy has literally devalued software to the point plugins are going for $50. Such a shame really.
 

slamthecrank

Hall of Fame Member
And music is now free! Thanks piracy thieves.
Yep. This makes me angry on a level that I don't really have words for.

Over the last weekend, I subbed at a small local studio for some tracking, and the owner was there who told me that they were having an issue with something regarding their Renaissance Collection, so I said "eh, let's do a reinstall and I'm sure it will work it out" only to find out that they had an entire "Mercury Collection" that was a pirated copy.

Extremely harsh words were exchanged and it actually ended up with me being told that I wouldn't be hired back, which is totally fine as I don't like to work with stolen equipment in any way, shape, or form. When I tried to point out that it's 'cost of maintenance' to pay for the equipment you use, and wondered whether their computer, speakers, guitars, drums, keyboards were stolen. It was like talking to a brick wall - and no tracking even got started.

I am still incredibly angry about the entire situation.
 

caustix

Venerated Member
Yea, you did right. I look at it from the team who would have written the Mercury Collection not essentially Waves as a company. It's a slap in the face to those who work legally - maybe I'm being biased. No ifs or buts. Peeps need to see the value again in software and music downloads. It's good to own your stuff. I honestly don't think the masses fully understand the work it takes to make these. It is amazing really how it's taking for granted.
 

Serenity

Hall of Fame Member
I honestly think that streaming services are to blame for killing the recording industry, not piracy. Now people live with the illusion that they are actually doing a good thing and paying for the music when in fact pretty much no-one that made the music ever get to see that money.
Then again, markets comes and goes.
 

DanButsu

Administrator
Forum Admin
Moderator
^ But Piracy initially lead to the streaming industry and iPods holding 40,000 mp3s devalued music completely!
 

Serenity

Hall of Fame Member
^ But Piracy initially lead to the streaming industry and iPods holding 40,000 mp3s devalued music completely!
No the streaming industry lead to the streaming industry. Sure, the big record companies were kinda desperate for a solution to the idea that piracy was hurting them (which has been shown to be false), something that Daniel Ek took advantage of and managed to convince them that streaming was the future.
In reality I'd say that social media and digital distribution services such as bandcamp was a much bigger enemy to the big record companies because it made them less relevant. Streaming services has created a revenue stream for them and made it harder for artists and small labels to make money off their music.
 

woodyreed

Established Member
Sure, the big record companies were kinda desperate for a solution to the idea that piracy was hurting them (which has been shown to be false),
Where is that "shown"? The industry (not just major labels) has been trying to figure out how to compete with "free" for a very long time now. You can't possibly believe that piracy didn't/doesn't hurt the recording industry.
 

Emmett_Brown

Established Member
I guess this is one benefit of the UAD DSP system, pretty much piracy proof, so our investment in UAD plugins is safer.

Also, this video was released in 2009. I wonder how much has changed since then with regards to modeling technology and techniques. Certainly the MKII versions of UAD plugs show a marked improvement over legacy versions. It would be cool to know how those advances were discovered and implemented (human curiosity).

Do you think most companies use similar techniques today, or is each company very unique in it's approach? I suppose those may be closely guarded secrets...
 
Last edited:

slamthecrank

Hall of Fame Member
Well, keep in mind this plugin was developed for the Powercore system. ;)
haha... yep, but as with anything to do with TC Electronics, never - ever - ever trust them that they will do what they say they will do / not do.

I trust Universal Audio 100%.

TC Electronics? Nope, never. Not even a tiny bit.
 

caustix

Venerated Member
Do you think most companies use similar techniques today, or is each company very unique in it's approach? I suppose those may be closely guarded secrets...
I'd bet that the process is similar, it's electrical & software engineering and the concepts and methods don't really change that much when you're writing low level. I don't think C has changed that much from the 70's to be honest. The modelling part probably has got better but yea, companies would have their own "way" but the concepts would be the same over the board. The skills also different I'd assume. More $$$ = more skills and bigger teams = faster releases.

Maybe I am wrong, I'm no expert on DSP modelling. I do know that DSP is a very interesting topic, I'd love to get into it check this article, it's fascinating.

Audio programming is completely different than programming for a native CPU. It takes a completely different approach when using DSP. Both ways seem to work though, meaning you can use native and DSP optimised code on a DSP chip but you can't use DSP on a native CPU (I might be wrong - but that's my current understanding of it). Do correct me if I am wrong.
 

Serenity

Hall of Fame Member
Where is that "shown"? The industry (not just major labels) has been trying to figure out how to compete with "free" for a very long time now. You can't possibly believe that piracy didn't/doesn't hurt the recording industry.
There has been several studies on this (google it). The music industry, and especially the large artists and labels were the ones least affected by piracy. In fact it was shown that those who pirated a lot also was the ones spending the most money on music (because it's a big passion for them).
Pretty much everyone knew that it wasn't legal and that it didn't support the artists. Streaming services was the ones who made music "free". Because all of a sudden you could access the music legally for little to no money, and people just assume that the artists are supported that way. But most of them don't get much out of it. The ones who are making the money are the streaming services and their shareholders. 1/6 of Spotify is owned by record companies, that way they can cash in without having to pay the artist. It's really worse than piracy in my book.
 

DanButsu

Administrator
Forum Admin
Moderator
Sony Music Entertainment generated $1.24 billion from streaming music in calendar 2016 – and $372 million in the three months to end of December alone.

That means Sony’s recorded music division is now earning approximately $124m every month, $31m every week, $4m every day and $167,000 every hour from the likes of Spotify and Apple Music.

Sony Music earned $1.2bn from streaming platforms in 2016 - Music Business Worldwide
 

Emmett_Brown

Established Member
I'd bet that the process is similar, it's electrical & software engineering and the concepts and methods don't really change that much when you're writing low level. I don't think C has changed that much from the 70's to be honest. The modelling part probably has got better but yea, companies would have their own "way" but the concepts would be the same over the board. The skills also different I'd assume. More $$$ = more skills and bigger teams = faster releases.

Maybe I am wrong, I'm no expert on DSP modelling. I do know that DSP is a very interesting topic, I'd love to get into it check this article, it's fascinating.

Audio programming is completely different than programming for a native CPU. It takes a completely different approach when using DSP. Both ways seem to work though, meaning you can use native and DSP optimised code on a DSP chip but you can't use DSP on a native CPU (I might be wrong - but that's my current understanding of it). Do correct me if I am wrong.
Yeah, good points. I suppose the techniques are similar, but perhaps these days plugin makers are more thorough in the modeling perhaps? You can see how the MKII UAD plugs take up a lot more DSP than the old ones, and they do sound better, so perhaps it is the process of QC and iteration that is more intense these days, and they account for more components in the chain. I am quite blown away by the new SSL plug for example. It sounds a lot better than the old one to me. I had been going hybrid, buying analog gear for the last couple of years. These recent UAD releases have me thinking of selling some of the outboard (except a few comps for tracking perhaps). Because of this, I am glad that UAD plugs are less prone to being stolen by hackers because they are tied to the hardware, hence protecting the investment somewhat (although you really can't sell them... another story)
 

caustix

Venerated Member
Yeah, good points. I suppose the techniques are similar, but perhaps these days plugin makers are more thorough in the modeling perhaps? You can see how the MKII UAD plugs take up a lot more DSP than the old ones, and they do sound better, so perhaps it is the process of QC and iteration that is more intense these days, and they account for more components in the chain. I am quite blown away by the new SSL plug for example. It sounds a lot better than the old one to me. I had been going hybrid, buying analog gear for the last couple of years. These recent UAD releases have me thinking of selling some of the outboard (except a few comps for tracking perhaps). Because of this, I am glad that UAD plugs are less prone to being stolen by hackers because they are tied to the hardware, hence protecting the investment somewhat (although you really can't sell them... another story)
Yea man, I meant the modelling/measuring/analysing the hardware, that process has probably improved a fair bit. But you're 100% on the software being a ton better. It's impressive how good it's getting. Knowledge and understanding is playing a big role, that's why I always rant about sims being just round the corner from indistinguishable from physical amps, because in reality that's where we're at and it's a really good thing. Not sure how far away but we're close to indistinguishable.

Did you ever learn songs and then use techniques from songs others wrote to create your own tune? It's the same with software, and you're right about "secret", UAD for sure have their secret approach. I don't know how patent in states works but here in UK/EU (not for long lol) it sucks dick and it's impossible, "secret" (software) is the best you can do to protect your idea.

Copying and changing is how I improved/learned though, everyone does it, by reading far superior open source code. UAD do the same, as you said, constantly improving. Good time for people to get into music production if you ask me, could never be so accessible.

I've SSL in my cart haha... Just debating myself whether to get it! I see "owned" everywhere in the UAD store so really thinking do I actually need anything else :)
 
Last edited:

Emmett_Brown

Established Member
Yea man, I meant the modelling/measuring/analysing the hardware, that process has probably improved a fair bit. But you're 100% on the software being a ton better. It's impressive how good it's getting. Knowledge and understanding is playing a big role, that's why I always rant about sims being just round the corner from indistinguishable from physical amps, because in reality that's where we're at and it's a really good thing. Not sure how far away but we're close to indistinguishable.

Did you ever learn songs and then use techniques from songs others wrote to create your own tune? It's the same with software, and you're right about "secret", UAD for sure have their secret approach. I don't know how patent in states works but here in UK/EU (not for long lol) it sucks dick and it's impossible, "secret" (software) is the best you can do to protect your idea.

Copying and changing is how I improved/learned though, everyone does it, by reading far superior open source code. UAD do the same, as you said, constantly improving. Good time for people to get into music production if you ask me, could never be so accessible.

I've SSL in my cart haha... Just debating myself whether to get it! I see "owned" everywhere in the UAD store so really thinking do I actually need anything else :)
Ha! Gotta get that SSL man, it's a beast as I am sure you are aware after demoing it! Good times.
 

woodyreed

Established Member
There has been several studies on this (google it).
I don't need to google a story about what I've lived first hand. There have been plenty of people that try to convince the industry piracy didn't hurt sales. Bull Shit!!!!!!!!! Unit sales were 1/3 of peek Y2K sales in 2008 when Spotify launched.

I know this is a useless debate, much like politics. People have their view of what happened to sales. So be it. To me it's pretty simple. When music is being consumed and listened to at all time high levels, and sales are at all time low levels (approximately 1/10th of Y2K levels), it's pretty easy to draw some conclusions. And while I'm venting, can we please stop calling Spotify and the likes "streaming" services? When you can download the song to your device to play anytime and anywhere you like, regardless of having internet connection or not, it's a download service. Not streaming!!!!!!!!!!
 

Serenity

Hall of Fame Member
I don't need to google a story about what I've lived first hand. There have been plenty of people that try to convince the industry piracy didn't hurt sales. Bull Shit!!!!!!!!! Unit sales were 1/3 of peek Y2K sales in 2008 when Spotify launched.

I know this is a useless debate, much like politics. People have their view of what happened to sales. So be it. To me it's pretty simple. When music is being consumed and listened to at all time high levels, and sales are at all time low levels (approximately 1/10th of Y2K levels), it's pretty easy to draw some conclusions. And while I'm venting, can we please stop calling Spotify and the likes "streaming" services? When you can download the song to your device to play anytime and anywhere you like, regardless of having internet connection or not, it's a download service. Not streaming!!!!!!!!!!
Fine, call it a subscription service then, it really doesn't matter.
There are many factors at play. Keep in mind that single downloads skyrocketed in the mid 2000s, and that replaced a lot of album sales. As CD album sales declined single downloads and subscription services replaced it while there has been a low interest in digital album sales. People seem to be more interested in buying vinyls.
So unit sales (including singles) has actually been going up and is at an all time high, but earnings has been going down steadily. I guess people are fed up with paying extra money for filler songs.
 
UAD Bundle Month
Top