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Thread: Impule Response Tips?

  1. #81
    Experienced UAD User De Pepper's Avatar
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    Sorry if this has been answered or implied already but what is the aim in terms of dBFS peaks or RMS for getting a guitar DI signal that will play nice with IR's?

    I'm going in with a Gibson Studio > Apollo Twin HiZ > Logic (and monitor via Console)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myramyd View Post
    Okay, those should sound decent. I guess if your playing is really off, you can get a muddy sound if you aren't clearly fingering the notes. You can try the old trick of putting a little foam under the strings up against the bridge. This mutes some of the overtones and sustain.

    The DI sound is usually really "plain" sounding for lack of a better word. Then you use the amp to give it more personality. Blending the two together, you get that solid sound from the DI and the character from the amp. I usually have the amp at 100% and bring up the DI to see how it sounds with it. Sometimes the DI sounds better louder in the track, sometimes the amp does and sometimes they sound best being equal. So just mess around with the blend.

    Also, if you don't want to spend the cash on the UA amp sims, the Logic bass amps are actually quite good. You can use that to track with too so you have more life in the sound. Then duplicate the track and take it off one for the DI sound. It doesn't record the sound of the plugin on the track.

    J
    I actually ended up using my amp on the cleanest setting possible and my SUHR RL for the bass tone and it sounds halfway decent with a clean celestion IR.
    I've got a ton of tracks right now, still messing around trying to find the best recorded guitar tone i can get. I've got tracks with my strat and LP using IR's and some with my amp mic'd up with an SM 57. I'm planning on blending the IR's with the Mic'd tracks and panning the strat hard one way and the LP hard the other.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by De Pepper View Post
    Sorry if this has been answered or implied already but what is the aim in terms of dBFS peaks or RMS for getting a guitar DI signal that will play nice with IR's?

    I'm going in with a Gibson Studio > Apollo Twin HiZ > Logic (and monitor via Console)
    You want to aim for around -18dBFS RMS when recording. Peaks can get up around -12 to -10 or so but don't go too hot or too low. From there you can adjust the signal going into or coming out of the IR using whatever plugin you have, but in my experience they all work well with this level. I use Space Designer in Logic for IR since it's easy and simple and doesn't introduce any latency.

    But you don't say what amp you are using in between the guitar and input? You do need to have an amp to use an IR unless you are going for a special effect of some kind. Not that it doesn't work for cleans, but the IR is just the speaker cabinet without any amp.

    J

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanMW View Post
    I actually ended up using my amp on the cleanest setting possible and my SUHR RL for the bass tone and it sounds halfway decent with a clean celestion IR.
    I've got a ton of tracks right now, still messing around trying to find the best recorded guitar tone i can get. I've got tracks with my strat and LP using IR's and some with my amp mic'd up with an SM 57. I'm planning on blending the IR's with the Mic'd tracks and panning the strat hard one way and the LP hard the other.

    Cool, yeah, you will get a punchy and mid-focused bass sound that way. It's good for some things but you miss a lot of low end that way usually. I've done that on some bass parts that were higher in range (high up the neck part) but for that solid low end, a guitar amp will probably high pass some or all of those lows depending. The speaker IR response will as well. Guitar speakers usually fall off rapidly starting at around 150Hz or so, which is above what you want for bass. That 40-100Hz range for bass is pretty critical--hence why it's called a "bass"!

    That and guitar cabinets actually amplify the ranges in bass guitars you don't typically want to amplify, like the 2-4kHz range where the string squeaks and ringing overtones are.

    J

  5. #85
    Experienced UAD User De Pepper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myramyd View Post
    You want to aim for around -18dBFS RMS when recording. Peaks can get up around -12 to -10 or so but don't go too hot or too low. From there you can adjust the signal going into or coming out of the IR using whatever plugin you have, but in my experience they all work well with this level. I use Space Designer in Logic for IR since it's easy and simple and doesn't introduce any latency.

    But you don't say what amp you are using in between the guitar and input? You do need to have an amp to use an IR unless you are going for a special effect of some kind. Not that it doesn't work for cleans, but the IR is just the speaker cabinet without any amp.

    J
    Thanks. No, I was imprecise. I am messing around with both eq's (hipass), transient designer (more/less attack) and pedal plugins (TS808 etc.) before hitting an amp sim (e.g. the ENGL's w/cab off) before hitting any IR's (e.g. Ownhammer loaded via Torpedo WSIII).

    I've found that (for higain metal at least) the closer I can get to 0 without peaking the fuller the sound. With the DI gui's peaking at -10 or -12 dBFS the final sound seems to lack a lot of body whereas peaks closer to -2 dBFS gives life-like life to lows and mids.

    Funny thing: Even when peaking at -2 dBFS I only get an RMS reading of around -20 dB, but maybe that's because I'm not strumming full chords (which I assume has more energy) but rather palm-muting powerchords with the odd single string riff outbursts

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    If you are looking for a really good high gain IR (and free), track down the "Sperimental Pack", primarily the Framus cabinet (it's only one IR). I just tried last night and it's quite good. I think it was created by the person that also created the NADIR IR Loader. I think i got it here, after joining this forum. Maybe there's an easier way to get it? http://www.guitarampmodeling.com/viewtopic.php?t=2850

    Edit: After listening again later, it has a lot of low end...you'll probably have to roll quite a bit off in a mix. For high gain, i find the celestion's i bought a little hollow and lacking too much low end (only have the Lynchback 2x12 and Greenback 4x12)...they do sound much better on lower gain and clean tones.

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    Master of the UADiverse Matt Hepworth's Avatar
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    RMS and peak should be a lot closer with high gain. Clean can bounce all over the place.

    I also suspect part of what makes the higher level fuller sounding is Fletcher Munson playing tricks with us.
    Myramyd likes this.
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    Matt is right--you aren't getting a fuller sound by recording super hot like that, it's just louder. Turn up your monitors instead.

    Not good practice to record the guitars that hot. It's not ideal for the A/D convertors.

    I recently got a Two Notes Captor and use IR with it and there is no advantage to recording it that hot. I also find it odd that you are using all the EQ and transient designers. Why not make the source sound better first?

    I can get a really great sound just doing Amp > Captor > Apollo in (no plugins at all - This is where it should be -18dBFS RMS also) > IR

    If it doesn't sound the way I want I either tweak the amp or use a different IR. It shouldn't require tricks or workarounds if your source tone is good to begin with. If this doesn't sound good there is something wrong.

    What you do to make it fit in the mix after that is a different story, but the tone before that should be solid. Get it right at the source and you don't have to do much with it after that.

    J

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    Quick question--

    Yesterday I decided to take some of the built-in logic amp sims for a test drive. Using my mesa boogie --> Suhr RL --> Apollo twin --> Logic and monitoring with my Adams A7 speakers. I noticed that if I played on my Les Paul's neck pickup, the lower notes sounded incredibly flubby and muddy through the speakers. Is this normal? I was under the impression you could get pretty solid guitar tone out of quality monitors. I presently have them sitting on my desk. Could this be why? Should I invest in some foam?

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanMW View Post
    Quick question--

    Yesterday I decided to take some of the built-in logic amp sims for a test drive. Using my mesa boogie --> Suhr RL --> Apollo twin --> Logic and monitoring with my Adams A7 speakers. I noticed that if I played on my Les Paul's neck pickup, the lower notes sounded incredibly flubby and muddy through the speakers. Is this normal? I was under the impression you could get pretty solid guitar tone out of quality monitors. I presently have them sitting on my desk. Could this be why? Should I invest in some foam?
    If you are using the Logic Amp Sims, you don't want to use the Suhr and Mesa at all. Just plug your guitar directly into the Apollo HiZ and use the Logic amps. Otherwise it would sound pretty terrible. That would be like going out of your real amp and plugging into a second real amp. It will not sound right at all.

    There are ways to use just the speaker cabinets in the Logic amps that way, but you need to set it up a certain way to bypass the preamp/amps first so that you are just using the cabinet. Personally, I don't think that method (using a real amp with Logic amp sims as the cabinets) sounds that great. The Logic amp sims are best just used by themselves without the amp and RL in front of them.

    J

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