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​ Different UA compressors for different tastes/goals/genres?

De Pepper

Active Member

With the many different UA compressors I loose sight of the applications they truly excel at (mastering, mixbus, busses, various instrument tracks, parallel auxes). 5 years into homestudio mixing I guess I'm still struggling with hearing the finer nuances of compression :eek:

What makes you choose which compressor for these tasks instead of the other compressors?

For instance, on a rock drum, vocal or guitar bus: What makes you choose e.g. the API 2500 instead of the Neve 33609 or the 670 instead of the Zener? Are you guided by the groove/feel of the performance, by the tempo or the emotion of the song - or "simply" by personal taste and preference to 'color'?

How about your rock song mix bus. Do you find that one compressor rules them all?

I dabble with soul and hiphop, but primarily make metal and rock (in between Zeppelin/Floyd, Tool/AIC and Metallica/Gojira with a twist of Suffocation) and have the 3 collections (Fairchild, 1176, LA2A), the Distressor, the Fatso and the VSC-2.

Yet I am strangely tempted to acquire the API 2500, the Zener Limiter or the 33609. If you were me would you need them or just want them? :)
 

Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of musical dreams fullfilled.
The MK2's of the Fairchild, 1176, and LA2A are still my favorites. I own nearly all the other UAD compressors but those 3, along with the Vari-MU, are the ones I use 95% of the time. For the most part, I use the Fairchild or Vari-MU on busses, 1176 on individual instruments, and LA2A on bass and vocals. Also, the DBX 160 is nice to have around as a DSP-cheap utility compressor for catching peaks.
 

aesthete

Venerated Member
Eric's Round Up Above covers a lot of the bases I will also add in the Distressor as another.

For master bus I like the Fairchildren mark 1 or 2 onthe Master bus for a classic sound and Manley Vari mu for a little bit more modern of a Sheen.

I know a couple cats who talk highly of the Zener that maybe when you want to check out as well although I haven't had the time to myself.

For your metal genre you may also want to give the culture vulture a demo.
 

De Pepper

Active Member
The MK2's of the Fairchild, 1176, and LA2A are still my favorites. I own nearly all the other UAD compressors but those 3, along with the Vari-MU, are the ones I use 95% of the time.
Thanks! I do like them alot myself, it's just that I sense such intense love for the 2500 and the 33609 around here. But - and I'm only a couple of hours into testing - for mixbus duty I find the VSC-2 delivers more "glue" more easily (i.e. fewer buttons/knobs) than the 2500. The 33609 on the other hand sounds quite impressive and delivers a great deal of punch and loudness without peak increase. Not getting along with adding the limiter along with the compression though, chokes things and makes control more finnicky.

For the most part, I use the Fairchild or Vari-MU on busses, 1176 on individual instruments, and LA2A on bass and vocals. Also, the DBX 160 is nice to have around as a DSP-cheap utility compressor for catching peaks.
Ah, I will most certainly have to test the DBX.
 

De Pepper

Active Member
For master bus I like the Fairchildren mark 1 or 2 onthe Master bus for a classic sound and Manley Vari mu for a little bit more modern of a Sheen.
Not sure why, but I figured that the Vari Mu was - simplification alert! - more "jazz" than "rock". Would you say they more or less do the same "vari mu" thing with the 670 being more... hazy (?) and the Manley more hifi?

I know a couple cats who talk highly of the Zener that maybe when you want to check out as well although I haven't had the time to myself.
I managed a quick Zener drumbus test yesterday and sweet gorilla from Manila! In THD mode I was able to increase loudness by more than 4dB with no peak increase (not that that is a goal in and of itself, but I do like Hulk-smashing drums!). Added a second instance in M/S limiter mode and it blew my socks off. I sat there sockless ;) And different Release settings had a dramatic impact on room sound/sustain that I haven't heard with other compressors. I can't see it working all the time though, that would get tiring, but tonight I'm pretty sure I'll find use for it on many other things (vocals, bass and guitar are up).

For your metal genre you may also want to give the culture vulture a demo.
Yes! I have it and it compresses clean and growl vocals and bass exquisitely. And rules in parallel on drums.
 
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DanButsu

Administrator
Forum Admin
Moderator
Different UA compressors for different...

Hi DrPeper. I personally don’t think of tools like compressors genre specific. To me they are job specific based on the tone and vibe of the different compressor technologies and how the affect the sound.

Once I leaned what each style of compressor did in terms of tone, vibe and sound design, I learned when to grab what compressor for the desired result/challenge at hand within a mix.

Everybody’s ears and style is different and so is what we are working on, but what helped me out in the beginning was to take a break from trying to mix songs, open up multi-track sessions and study the tools and techniques without the pressure of pulling out a mix for a client. Meaning don't actually mix it, but use the tracks to study.

What I did was sit down with a multi-track session and run every single track through one type of compressor only, say a FET, then the next day I’d run all tracks in a song through a vari-mu... so on and so forth until you begin to understand how each style of compressor affects the tone and vibe of each source in its unique way. This way you will train your ears, based in your tastes and style to the different character of each compressor and will start to know what one to reach for in a mix when you are faced with a situation that “requires” compression. Also, please go to extremes with each setting and go TOO FAR, so you can then know the limits. It's easy to back it off once you've gone too far, but you have to go overboard first to know the limits!

Here’s an excerpt from a masterclass I give on tone and compressor technologies:

Variable-μ
Variable-μ compressors use vacuum tubes designed to have a gain that can be controlled by a sidechain signal. These compressors feature smooth compression curves and can be made to have significant warmth or saturation. Attack, release and ratio are designed explicitly by external components. Disadvantages are that poorly matched tubes or poor maintenance can result in significant distortion of audio.
• Famous example: Universal Audio 175 and the Fairchild 670.
• Tone/Vibe: smooth, warm, creamy or organic


Optical
Optical compressors were first introduced to prevent the gain reduction signal from leaking into the audio path. Because of this, they are often billed as zero-distortion compressors. A big advantage of optical compression is that, depending upon the physics of the optical device used, a program-dependent release can be had "for free," with no additional components needed in the circuit. Disadvantages are that the attack and release times are coupled, meaning that unless the release time is artificially increased (which would negate the program dependence), the attack and release times cannot be set separately. Attack times are generally not exceptionally fast. Also, for stereo applications, it can be difficult to get precise tracking of compression between channels.
• Famous example: Teletronix LA-2A.
• Tone/Vibe: very smooth, slow-releasing and "organic", neutral/invisible, or very squashy/effecty


VCA
VCA compressors are the most modern designs, using large-scale circuit design to produce a variable-gain amplifier with high linearity and immunity to crosstalk from control signals. Character for these designs is obtained exclusively by design of the attack and release behaviour and the static compression characteristics. VCAs are probably the most flexible compression technology, and they can be extremely transparent. Care must be taken in design, as some of the "accidental" good properties of other technologies will not appear for free here.
• Famous examples: dbx 160VU, SSL G-Master Buss Compressor.
• Tone/Vibe: fast, clean compression


FET
FET compressors are somewhat similar to variable-mu compressors, but with properties of solid-state saturation rather than tube warmth. The nonlinearities associated with the FET can be largely eliminated by a clever trick of circuitry. FET compression knees tend to be somewhat more compact than vari-mu tubes. Attack, release and ratios are configurable as with vari-mu designs.
• Famous example: UREI 1176.
• Tone/Vibe: VCA style compression (fast &clean) but with more colour


Diode Bridge
Diode bridge compressors can be fully configurable in terms of compression parameters, in that the compression curves and the attack and release can be designed independent of the compression element. Diode bridges also provide good immunity between the control signal and the audio path. Compressors built on this technology are tonally distinctive, because the nonlinearities associated with the diodes can reach up to ten percent harmonic distortion under certain conditions. These designs are flexible and can add a pleasant character.
• Famous examples: Neve 2264, Neve 33609.
• Tone/Vibe: Pleasant character with harmonic distortion


REFERENCES:
Analog Obsession: Compression Technology and Topology
UA WebZine "Analog Obsession" April 06 | Compression Technology and Topology

What are the differences between various types of compressor?
Types of Compressors
 
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Beechwood

Venerated Member
Great list Dan. The only thing that confuses me is that such lists always talk about VCA compressors as being flexible and transparent, and give the DBX160 as a famous example, when to me there's nothing flexible or transparent about it!
 

jkuehlin

Member
Hi De Pepper. The general premise Dan mentions here helped me make sense of the seemingly overwhelming onslaught of compressors available on the market. I took the time to learn this stuff years ago and I frequently fall back on this knowledge. Both in quickly choosing compressors or in research when buying and demoing a software sim.

Once I leaned what each style of compressor did in terms of tone, vibe and sound design, I learned when to grab what compressor for the desired result/challenge at hand within a mix.
This doesn't tell you want compressor to use, but understanding the circuits at least helped compartmentalize the popular ones out there and have SOME grasp on why certain compressors work better on some sources than others. It at least helped things to make sense. Not all of them will follow hard fast rules. Some are built one way but are capable of acting like another.

Here's a really good read in addition to the 2 that Dan posted:

VCA, Opto, Vari-Mu, FET compressors? When to use which ? | Quantum Music Mastering
 

Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of musical dreams fullfilled.
Thanks! I do like them alot myself, it's just that I sense such intense love for the 2500 and the 33609 around here. But - and I'm only a couple of hours into testing - for mixbus duty I find the VSC-2 delivers more "glue" more easily (i.e. fewer buttons/knobs) than the 2500. The 33609 on the other hand sounds quite impressive and delivers a great deal of punch and loudness without peak increase.
I was really excited about the 2500 when I first started using it. In Feedback mode, I thought it sounded like a 33609 without the cloudiness. After purchasing it and using it a bit more, though, I found that it doesn't hold together as well as the Fairchild MK2 and Vari-MU do on busses. Now I don't use it at all.

Not sure why, but I figured that the Vari Mu was - simplification alert! - more "jazz" than "rock". Would you say they more or less do the same "vari mu" thing with the 670 being more... hazy (?) and the Manley more hifi?
That basically sums it up, although hazy isn't exactly the word I'd use. Basically, I use the Vari-MU with I want the Fairchild dynamics control without the color.
 

De Pepper

Active Member
Hi DrPeper. I personally don’t think of tools like compressors genre specific. To me they are job specific based on the tone and vibe of the different compressor technologies and how the affect the sound.
Hey Dan, thanks for your detalied reply and suggestions. I like your thinking, it's liberating. Genres apart, what do you think about tempo-based mixbus compressor choice? I recall a recent thread here where a handful of users seemed to agree that the 670 works best (better) on more midtempo or slow songs.

[...] What I did was sit down with a multi-track session and run every single track through one type of compressor only, say a FET, then the next day I’d run all tracks in a song through a vari-mu... so on and so forth until you begin to understand how each style of compressor affects the tone and vibe of each source in its unique way. This way you will train your ears, based in your tastes and style to the different character of each compressor and will start to know what one to reach for in a mix when you are faced with a situation that “requires” compression. Also, please go to extremes with each setting and go TOO FAR, so you can then know the limits. It's easy to back it off once you've gone too far, but you have to go overboard first to know the limits!
About high time I sat down and did this. School should rock this way!

Here’s an excerpt from a masterclass I give on tone and compressor technologies [...]:
Great list, will check out links too.

Just wondering: Would the Zener Limiter fit in the "Diode bridge" category with its "rare zener diode topology" (quote from UA's product page) or is altogether something different?
 

De Pepper

Active Member
Hi De Pepper. The general premise Dan mentions here helped me make sense of the seemingly overwhelming onslaught of compressors available on the market. I took the time to learn this stuff years ago and I frequently fall back on this knowledge. Both in quickly choosing compressors or in research when buying and demoing a software sim.

This doesn't tell you want compressor to use, but understanding the circuits at least helped compartmentalize the popular ones out there and have SOME grasp on why certain compressors work better on some sources than others. It at least helped things to make sense. Not all of them will follow hard fast rules. Some are built one way but are capable of acting like another.
Thanks for your reply. Wish I'd done this years ago. It's not that I'm too cool for school, I just didn't have a clue :) I'll make sure to check out your link too.

Cheque De Pepper
 

De Pepper

Active Member
I was really excited about the 2500 when I first started using it. In Feedback mode, I thought it sounded like a 33609 without the cloudiness. After purchasing it and using it a bit more, though, I found that it doesn't hold together as well as the Fairchild MK2 and Vari-MU do on busses. Now I don't use it at all.
Thanks for your reply. Do you mean on your stereo bus or anywhere?

That basically sums it up, although hazy isn't exactly the word I'd use. Basically, I use the Vari-MU with I want the Fairchild dynamics control without the color.
Language and the superlatives and metaphors we each use for describing sound is really intriguing, I think. 95% of what I read and hear about mixing is in English, but compared to Danish (my first language) English has about a 4-5 times as as many synonyms, well, a vastly greater vocabularium. But I never got along with the word "punchy", I prefer some good old Danish "SMÆK" which I guess is close to "smack" :) And I just can't seem to relate to the whole "another color for your palette" jargon, but I am yet to discover an alternative that suits me better.

Well, hazy or not I'll be taking Dan's compression curriculum below and remember to actually speak out and write down the words that come to my mind and build up that language.
 

Beechwood

Venerated Member
I've found that only letting yourself use one of each compressor for a track is a really good way of figuring out where you prefer each one.

I tend to use a channel strip which can do the typical gain reduction jobs, usually an SSL because I like the choice of attack times. Fast and slow are both really useful. Fast is good for normal use, vaguely 1176ish maybe, and slow really brings out the punch (SMÆK?) like a DBX160. And then I use the other compressors like outboard, for the times when you need a bit of extra something special. 1176 smash, or fairchild thickness, or LA2A smoothness. Or devil loc just because it's awesome.
 

Kcatthedog

Hall of Fame Member
Thanks for your reply. Do you mean on your stereo bus or anywhere?



Language and the superlatives and metaphors we each use for describing sound is really intriguing, I think. 95% of what I read and hear about mixing is in English, but compared to Danish (my first language) English has about a 4-5 times as as many synonyms, well, a vastly greater vocabularium. But I never got along with the word "punchy", I prefer some good old Danish "SMÆK" which I guess is close to "smack" :) And I just can't seem to relate to the whole "another color for your palette" jargon, but I am yet to discover an alternative that suits me better.

Well, hazy or not I'll be taking Dan's compression curriculum below and remember to actually speak out and write down the words that come to my mind and build up that language.
DCB: (Dan's Comp Vocabulariaum) :)

one thing about smack vs punch, I'd make a distinction between how a comp can make a snare smack or crack; focusing that mid-higher freq content but still having presence, not thinning it out too much vs a mix that has punch or liberally feels like it hits you in your chest, with very focused but clear energy ?
 

Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of musical dreams fullfilled.
Well, hazy or not I'll be taking Dan's compression curriculum below and remember to actually speak out and write down the words that come to my mind and build up that language.
I think hazy is a pretty good description of the 33609 or the original Pultec, maybe even the original Fairchild. I personally just don't consider the Fairchild MK2 to be hazy.
 

Kcatthedog

Hall of Fame Member
Maybe Smokey? There is a quality to the FC2, that some love, but I personally didn’t get on with. If I wanted richer or more texture comp, I just loved the neve :)
 

Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of musical dreams fullfilled.
Thanks for your reply. Do you mean on your stereo bus or anywhere?
Sorry, I missed this part of your question the first time. Yes, mainly the stereo bus, it's fine on the drum bus.
 
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