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Thread: Cubase | Windows | UAD >>> limited amount of plugins only!

  1. #51
    Shareholder marQs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Cooper View Post
    - giving Fabio the benefit of doubt, there might even be a chance of slight improvements in the future
    I have my hopes as well. They can't leave it as it is - diving deeper into this matter there are many users concerned. Of course many others are not, maybe due to smaller project dimensions, less plugins (I admit, I have plenty - all legal, all paid for, that's why I want to be able to use them without restrictions in the first place). But this issue hits, as stated before, the users with 'bigger ambitions', exact those who need a software called 'Pro' to work like a pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Cooper View Post
    - may I politely ask for updated results when C9.5.10 hits ?
    It shouldn't be far from release if I believe a Cubase forum member who claimed to be part of the 9.5 beta tester team. Soon we'll know, I'm excited!


    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Cooper View Post
    OT: slim chance, but are there any improvements to the C7/8/9 keyboard focus desaster in 9.5, marQs ?
    I'm dying to know, biggest workflow killer ever ...
    No change in that area. Cubase has evolved a lot since 6 in many other areas - had this moment where I started to enjoy the new goodies more than the loss. My brainware has automated that extra move to click into the window where I want to do something right after I stopped whining about it. I'd be a big fanboy if they could fix this.

    I've tried this: https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/wind...windows-vista/ (plus a hack that allows set the delay in ms how long you have to keep the mouse over a window until it selects - you'll find it googling) but it had too many downsides for me. Self-backgrounding editor windows when crossing the mixer area with the mouse (brought to foreground/editors disappear) while I was just on the mouseway to the project window on the other screen and the like. Depending on how you work and have your workspace organized it can be helpful, maybe give it a try.

    OT-Add-On: also wish, they'd re-implement the crucial lines of code that made this possible (video from 2013, missing this since Cubase 7) https://www.dropbox.com/s/mgbm1e9c1z...tings.avi?dl=0
    Last edited by marQs; 2 Weeks Ago at 07:25 PM.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by marQs View Post
    I have my hopes as well. They can't leave it as it is - diving deeper into this matter there are many users concerned. Of course many others are not, maybe due to smaller project dimensions, less plugins (I admit, I have plenty - all legal, all paid for, that's why I want to be able to use them without restrictions in the first place). But this issue hits, as stated before, the users with 'bigger ambitions', exact those who need a software called 'Pro' to work like a pro
    It shouldn't be far from release if I believe a Cubase forum member who claimed to be part of the 9.5 beta tester team. Soon we'll know, I'm excited!
    No change in that area. Cubase has evolved a lot since 6 in many other areas - had this moment where I started to enjoy the new goodies more than the loss. My brainware has automated that extra move to click into the window where I want to do something right after I stopped whining about it. I'd be a big fanboy if they could fix this.
    I've tried this: https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/wind...windows-vista/ (plus a hack that allows set the delay in ms how long you have to keep the mouse over a window until it selects - you'll find it googling) but it had too many downsides for me. Self-backgrounding editor windows when crossing the mixer area with the mouse (brought to foreground/editors disappear) while I was just on the mouseway to the project window on the other screen and the like. Depending on how you work and have your workspace organized it can be helpful, maybe give it a try.

    OT-Add-On: also wish, they'd re-implement the crucial lines of code that made this possible (video from 2013, missing this since Cubase 7) https://www.dropbox.com/s/mgbm1e9c1z...tings.avi?dl=0
    thanks, agreed !
    I hear you about that clip you linked.
    a rotten shame the keyboard focus has been sacrificed for that luckless cross-platform "engine" that neither works properly on Win nor Mac.
    If you're interested, shoot me a PM - there's a partial workaround using external scripting that solves more problems than it creates, pretty easy to set up if you can spare an evening.

    re that enthusiastic new "beta tester" - ain't he cute ?
    his posts were pretty clueless even before he achieved "godlike status" and did a Twix.
    I happen to know a few serious SB beta testers, real power users - none of them would bother to brag in public, in fact two would rather be caught dead than post on the SB forums ...
    cheers,
    Cooper

  3. #53
    Shareholder marQs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Cooper View Post
    ...re that enthusiastic new "beta tester" - ain't he cute ?
    his posts were pretty clueless even before he achieved "godlike status" and did a Twix.
    I happen to know a few serious SB beta testers, real power users - none of them would bother to brag in public, in fact two would rather be caught dead than post on the SB forums ...
    cheers,
    Cooper
    There's alway a poserlike flair around such postings, indeed

    I read that the 9.5 demo song shows '9.5.1-project' when you open it in 9.5. If that's correct the next update is already existant just not released. I don't care much, continued some 9.0 projects in 9.5 yesterday and it worked just like in 9.0 just with the extra features.
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  4. #54
    Shareholder marQs's Avatar
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    From the Cubase forum:
    "Fabio Bartolini wrote: 27 Nov 2017 20:06
    ... and write something I'll regret (it's just a bit too early)
    I guess this is why I prefer being cautious. I am sorry to report that the dynamic linking scheduled for 9.5.10 has been pulled (actually reversed) due to compatibility with Windows 7

    The rest of the schedule remains unchanged for the time being, meaning that this specific one has been moved to 9.5.20, but the fixes scheduled for 9.5.20 were not postponed to a later version."


    https://www.steinberg.net/forums/vie...07253&start=75
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by marQs View Post
    From the Cubase forum:
    "Fabio Bartolini wrote: 27 Nov 2017 20:06
    ... and write something I'll regret (it's just a bit too early)
    I guess this is why I prefer being cautious. I am sorry to report that the dynamic linking scheduled for 9.5.10 has been pulled (actually reversed) due to compatibility with Windows 7

    The rest of the schedule remains unchanged for the time being, meaning that this specific one has been moved to 9.5.20, but the fixes scheduled for 9.5.20 were not postponed to a later version."


    https://www.steinberg.net/forums/vie...07253&start=75
    good for Steinberg, apparently they still care about W7, and rightfully so.
    Personally I'd rather freeze my DAW setup than downgrade to W10.
    Hope UA will be ready for the plugin fix when Steinberg is.
    ymmv,
    Cooper

  6. #56
    Shareholder marQs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Cooper View Post
    Personally I'd rather freeze my DAW setup than downgrade to W10.


    Yeehaaa, I'm not alone with loving my vintage OS!
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    Bit late to this party, but I've been chatting directly to the people at Steinberg on this (I'm a Cubase user). So, I've learned that it's the Fiber Local Storage (FLS) slots which are causing the problem here. Microsoft have a limit on the number, I don't know how many, and after loading up Cubase it seems that there's a much lower number of slots left for the plugins. I would estimate about 70-80.

    Now, some plugin manufacturers use very few slots and some manufacturers seem to use many slots. In my tests I found that Cubase native plugins didn't use any slots. Waves was very well behaved and only used 3 slots (even if you load every different plugin). UAD used 2 slots to start with and then 2 slots per unique plugin. Soundtoys did the same. Arturia used between 4 and 6, but some instruments shared slots (although AnalogLab2 used 35 slots all at once!!!!). I'm talking specifically about adding unique plugins which then take up more slots when created, not adding plugins which are already used elsewhere in the project - they will share the slots already being used.

    I've found that using JBridge helps a lot because JBridge is a separate process therefore JBridge plugins don't use up the Cubase FLS slots. But this doesn't help when everything goes to VST3 of course.

    UAD is the one which causes me most problems on my system because I have a wide selection of plugins and they're good so I like to use most of them during a mix... With a limit of 80 slots for example, then only 39 unique UAD plugins can be loaded (39 x 2 + 2 = all 80 slots used) and that's it for plugins, whether they be from UAD or another comapany.

    Steinberg says that the plugin manufacturers should be swapping over to using dynamic linked DLLs. I'm not technically savvy on this one, but that's what they say.

    I guess I'm here to put pressure on UAD to change the way they use FLS slots so I can use more plugins in my project I'd welcome some feedback from the UAD team on this.

    Mike.
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by GargoyleStudio View Post
    Bit late to this party, but I've been chatting directly to the people at Steinberg on this (I'm a Cubase user). So, I've learned that it's the Fiber Local Storage (FLS) slots which are causing the problem here. Microsoft have a limit on the number, I don't know how many, and after loading up Cubase it seems that there's a much lower number of slots left for the plugins. I would estimate about 70-80.

    Now, some plugin manufacturers use very few slots and some manufacturers seem to use many slots. In my tests I found that Cubase native plugins didn't use any slots. Waves was very well behaved and only used 3 slots (even if you load every different plugin). UAD used 2 slots to start with and then 2 slots per unique plugin. Soundtoys did the same. Arturia used between 4 and 6, but some instruments shared slots (although AnalogLab2 used 35 slots all at once!!!!). I'm talking specifically about adding unique plugins which then take up more slots when created, not adding plugins which are already used elsewhere in the project - they will share the slots already being used.

    I've found that using JBridge helps a lot because JBridge is a separate process therefore JBridge plugins don't use up the Cubase FLS slots. But this doesn't help when everything goes to VST3 of course.

    UAD is the one which causes me most problems on my system because I have a wide selection of plugins and they're good so I like to use most of them during a mix... With a limit of 80 slots for example, then only 39 unique UAD plugins can be loaded (39 x 2 + 2 = all 80 slots used) and that's it for plugins, whether they be from UAD or another comapany.

    Steinberg says that the plugin manufacturers should be swapping over to using dynamic linked DLLs. I'm not technically savvy on this one, but that's what they say.

    I guess I'm here to put pressure on UAD to change the way they use FLS slots so I can use more plugins in my project I'd welcome some feedback from the UAD team on this.

    Mike.
    wow, Mike, thanks for lifting the investigation to an entirely new level !
    I'm not a programmer, but what you wrote makes total sense, and it goes nicely with our test results so far - we finally have some numbers from the other side of the fence, guys !

    So here's some fresh added speculation, together we might be able to fill in a few more blanks :
    - doing the math, it all points to a ceiiing of 128 slots per program.
    Cubase probably using around 30 itself atm, not entirely unreasonable imho.
    - Steinberg can possibly shave off a handful from what Cubase itself requires over time, but regarding 3rd party plugins their options are limited at best, in fact they probably can't do anything at all.
    - if you have not done so already, check if you can't remove a few dlls from the components folder, some (like the hubservice) are useless ballast anyway, and not everybody does video.
    - we had not considered VSTi so far - huge mistake !
    I'm not a big synth user, which might partially explain why I have not been bitten in the real world so far.
    I mainly use two - Superior 3 and Kontakt, numbers coming up over the weekend.
    - Arturia sounds bad, just when I got the new Anal Lab ...
    - I don't like the idea of jBridging dozens of FX, but a handful of VSTis is a different story, never gave me any trouble with S2 and K5 in the 32bit days.

    anything else ?
    Cooper
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  9. #59
    Heavy UAD User exoslime's Avatar
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    wow that is really interesting
    i really hope UA is jumping on this and tackling this topic
    @Mike which tool do you use to measure how many slots are used and by what plugin?

  10. #60
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    we are working on it...
    here some technical informations...:ugeek:

    We have to face to these issues:
    - each plugin linked with static C-runtime use (independently of how many instance of it):

    1 FLS when built under old compiler (Visual 2013),
    2 FLS when built with Visual 2015 and newer.

    => Advantage: each plugin has its own memory heap... more stability
    => Disadvantage: FLS is limited to 128 per application, this is quite new due to new compiler and some strategy change in Windows

    one solution is to link the plugins with the dynamic c-runtime libraries (c++ too):

    Advantage: only the first plugin instance with dynamic runtime will use 3 FLS, the next plugin not... no limit anymore..
    Disadvantage: all these plugins with dynamic runtime share the same Memory heap, this means that a plugin could corrupt an another, and that the memory could be highly fragmented....after a while, with unload and reload plugins... need more investigation...
    Disadvantage: on Windows 7 in some case (for example Windows not up-to-date), the installation of this Universal dynamic runtime libraries does not work, may be it makes sense to check if you use Windows 7 to install this universal runtime libraries (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/downloa ... x?id=48234)

    Note:
    currently the last VST 3 SDK, provided to plugins developers, uses the Dynamic Runtime by default for its examples..

    hope it helps...and not too technical
    YVan (Steinberg Employee)
    confirmation, found here :
    https://www.steinberg.net/forums/vie...673631#p673631

    Cooper

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