Cubase | Windows | UAD >>> limited amount of plugins only!

Hey UAD fellows,

triggered by another Cubase user I'm making up this thread here.


Problem:On Windows (seems no matter which version 7/8/10) in Cubase (7 up to current 9.5) there's a limitation on how much different plugins Cubase will load.

It's not about DSP limits which are clearly set by the amout of Sharcs installed. It's the total number of different plugins Cubase will allow you to instantiate until the attempt to use another plugin you haven't already used in your project will simply lead to nothing. Instantiating a plugin that was already used inthe project simply works (as long as your DSP-/CPU-power allows).

This is not exclusively related to UAD plugins. The problem seems to be the way how the plugin .dll-files communicate with the OS. It seems there's a dynamic and a static way to do so. Plugins that suffer from not being able to loaded if that limit is reached seem to be the ones that work with the static method. Windows seems to allow only for a certain amount of static .dll-related processes. Sorry for my ignorance/lacking of correct technical terms, I'm a user, not an IT guy.

A user in the Cubase forums reported that Soundtoys plugins are concerned as well, while i.e. Waves plugins are not.

Here's a video how the problem looks factually on my computer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpuYn0y5JM0


Nasty byproducts of the issue: it's happening that some plugins are instantiating as usual while you work on the project but will simply miss without a warning when you re-open the same - formerly working - project later! That's leading into trouble.



Solutions & suggestions:

As far as I read JBridge could solve the problem. Haven't tested it myself yet. (Cool if it works, but host & plugin manufacturers should either include such solutions or code their software to-not-need-crutches, shouldn't they?)

Host manufacturers could 'sandbox' plugin processing (also just fake-knowledge here, but I've read that i.e. Bitwig handles plugins like this), which means there's more headroom/higher possible number of plugns.

Plugin manufacturers could use the dynamic vs. the static way to 'speak to' runtime libraries. (Again: forgive my half knowledge and use of terms I don't even exactly know what they mean but seem to be related from hearsay ).




I have contacted UA support already and having conversations there. Would be nice to have the issue fixed. Seems there's quite a discussion going on on the Cubase (and other DAWs') forums while the problem isn't a relevant topic here.

Please post your experiences here in case you run into the same issue.

I have similar problem, in large projects.

I've not seen this happening.. I use almost exclusively UA & Soundtoys plugs on Win 10 64. Different plugs in different DAWs with Windows in common makes me thing it's an OS deal..

I have an octocore, but UAD starts acting up in Cubase 9.5 with only 11 plugins inserted (and all meters looking great; from task manager, vst performance, to uad meters).

Not only does it prevent me from adding more UAD plugins, but even plugins from Steinberg (for instance bit crusher) and several other plugins from third party vendors. I did not in a million years expect one of the biggest plugin vendors to not support one of the biggest daws. I'm back on Cubase 8.5 after talking to UAD customer support (stating they don't support Cubase 9 or later). Wasn't Cubase 9 released like a year ago?

Paying this kind of money I think we should be able to expect better than this.

Sid Chigger said:

I've not seen this happening.. I use almost exclusively UA & Soundtoys plugs on Win 10 64. Different plugs in different DAWs with Windows in common makes me thing it's an OS deal..

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UA told me they don't support Cubase 9 or later yet (and this is also officialy stated on their website). Cubase 8.5 works great on my system, but 9.5 is useless with UAD.

ctothel said:

UA told me they don't support Cubase 9 or later yet (and this is also officialy stated on their website). Cubase 8.5 works great on my system, but 9.5 is useless with UAD.

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Really? That is worrying, since Cubase 9 is almost a year old by now. On the other hand, I am on 9.5 and haven't experienced any issues with my UAD plugins.

/Magnus

Wow how horrible, i was really hoping to upgrade to Cubase 9.5 with the 64 bit mix engine..

I guess ill just stick with reaper for now.

I sure wish everything would play nice together.

Can you hear us UAudio?

ctothel said:

UA told me they don't support Cubase 9 or later yet (and this is also officialy stated on their website). Cubase 8.5 works great on my system, but 9.5 is useless with UAD.

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Been working with Cubase 9 since it's out. No difference regarding UAD plugins to Cubase 8 or 8.5. So 9.5 isn't useless with UAD, it just seems that an old problem gets visible earlier.

The same problems here with Win10 - Cubase 9.5 - UAD.

Somehow other developpers like Flux work perfect. So it´s up to UAD to change something!!!

marQs said:

HPlease post your experiences here in case you run into the same issue.

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thank you very very much for bringing this up!

i have the same issue with cubase 6.5 64bit on win7 64bit on large projects!! i, its one thing if you just cannot load another plugin anymore (if thats happening, i´m already warned that i need to take care!!), but i totally get mad, when i reopen a plugin and i notice that some plugins are missing (luckily this happens very rarely but it did happen quite sometimes and it was real pita)

i was hoping this was a C6.5 issue and if i upgrade one day, the issue is solved, but appearently, thats not the case

its interesting what you write, that its perhaps related to how the dll file is coded.

i made a similar observation with the slate vmr plugin dll, i remember a year ago or so, i have updated to the back than latest slate vmr version, i think it had included the Air EQ modules and bomber and stuff like that, and suddenly, after the update, i had loads of trouble that i couldnt open my projects anymore without haven lots of plugins missing.
then i uninstalled the slate vmr again, and reinstalled the previous slate vmr version and everything worked out fine again.
then i reinstalled the new one again.. bamm, same issue, lots of plugins missing in the projects

i then noticed that the .dll file itself on the newer version was a to portion bigger so i thought its maybe related to a memory issue, because back than, i had an instance of slate vmr on almost every channel (60channels minimum per Project) so that added up. so i uninstalled the newer version again and reinstalled the old version with smaller .dll filesize)
In theoroy, should not happen, i have 16GB ram in my DAW and Windows Task Manager told me only 5 or 6Gb habe been used and plenty of free memory.

But because of that, i´m still running the old slate vmr haha, i´m not using subscription anyway and also dont need the Air Eq modules so i´m happy with that.

kind regards
chris

Interesting! I always thought VMR works as a kind of wrapper and once you've used it in a project it wouldn't add to the problem, no matter what plugins you use inside VMR. I use just the VCC modules and have it consequently on each channel in many of my projects without trouble (when plugins are missing, it's not VMR).

Same for Soundtoys. Since I'm aware of the problem I do always use their Effect Rack to insert the individual plugins there, which seems to get me some headroom back.

Can't remember I've had the problem with Cubase 6.5 but perhaps I just didn't have that amount of different plugins back then. Tried this yesterday (6.5 still installed) and it loaded just 10 (!) different plugins. Which certainly was not the case when I used it daily, so could be a 'rotten' installation. Just need it for some trivial tasks today.

marQs said:

Been working with Cubase 9 since it's out. No difference regarding UAD plugins to Cubase 8 or 8.5. So 9.5 isn't useless with UAD, it just seems that an old problem gets visible earlier.

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Well, that's great for you, but I don't see the point in posting that if you dont have problems. Why are you in this thread at all then? No disrespect, I just don't see the logic.

I think I have plugins from every single vendor out there and UAD plugins are the only ones creating problems in 9.5. I uninstalled UAD and it works flawlessly. Glad to see I'm not the only one..

Yes it'a a pity.... I have 18 UAD Cores and cannot use the power of my UAD DSP !!! so why buying another DSP card ????

perhaps it will be better to move this in "Support/troubleshooting"...

pierre87 said:

Yes it'a a pity.... I have 18 UAD Cores and cannot use the power of my UAD DSP !!! so why buying another DSP card ????

perhaps it will be better to move this in "Support/troubleshooting"...

Click to expand...

Good idea! @ Matt Hepworth: could you do this please?

ctothel said:

Well, that's great for you, but I don't see the point in posting that if you dont have problems. Why are you in this thread at all then? No disrespect, I just don't see the logic.

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I have problems, that's why I started this thread in the first place

The point was that the situation doesn't differ much, no matter which version of Cubase is used!

Moved

marQs said:

I have problems, that's why I started this thread in the first place

The point was that the situation doesn't differ much, no matter which version of Cubase is used!

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Oh, I'm sorry I think I might have misunderstood you. Hope UAD are on the ball now; Cubase 9 has been out for quite some time and the 9.5 might be the best daw the world has seen.

Oh yes, I‘m eager to work with 9.5, first I‘ll finish some stuff in 9 first (no need for surprises).
Indeed 9.5 looks pretty advanced, for the moment I‘d call it complete if they had already implemented ARA!

Hi All

Lets be clear about one thing. This is NOT a Cubase only issue. This is a Windows and plugin manufacturer issue.

The problem is present with Reaper, Cubase and any Windows DAW.

My understanding of the issue is with Static binding on .dll libraries within a process. Each unique plugin takes up a slot, and it seems that over the past 2 years Microsoft changed something that dramatically lowered the number of slots. That coupled with the fact that certain plugins or plugin manufacturers seem to occupy more slots than others for unique instances. For some reason UAD plugins seem to be one of the worst culprits.

I reported this to UAD support over a year ago and the main response that since this would involve a major coding effort to fix plus a lot of their user base is MAC ... and.... only 2 users at that point had logged a support claim and I was one of them... nothing would be done about it any time soon.

Since then I've wound down my use of UAD plugins over other native manufacturers.

Everyone affected on this thread need to log a support ticket with UAD and insist on a fix. UAD are not the only ones either. And ultimately Microsoft is to blame but how to get to them?!