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Level compensated mono button in the console, please!!!

Toneranger

Toneranger

Active Member
This might seem like a small point (I did a search and haven't seen this mentioned) but the 'mono' button in the console application is not level compensated, in other words the level jumps when it's activated (I'm guessing 3 dB) due to the summing of the two channels. That's not good for A/Bing with the stereo mix, and what's worse...if I'm working on a mix that has a limiter on the master bus, it goes into digital distortion when I hit the 'mono' button. Not cool.

I've also been using the Apogee Duet 2, which has an option to use one of the soft buttons as a 'mono' button - and it's level compensated. MUCH more useful.

Anybody else find this annoying? I'm actually surprised at this oversight by UA, considering how well thought out everything else about the Apollo is. If I'm missing a setting or something here, please let me know! I've looked around pretty thoroughly and haven't found anything to correct this.....
 
DanButsu

DanButsu

Administrator
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Moderator
Mono level compensation would totally defeat the purpose of flipping a mix into mono and would be disastrous!

You hit the mono button during a mix to test the phasing and monocompatability! If there's a drop in perceived volume (or elements disappear) then your mix is phasing with destructive interference. If there's a volume boost, then there's lots of constructive phasing (centre elements pushed too hard in the mix), which is said to be more of an inphase mix.

You really need to hear the mono mix uncompensated to see how your phasing is interacting!
 
Toneranger

Toneranger

Active Member
DanButsu said:
Mono level compensation would totally defeat the purpose of flipping a mix into mono and would be disastrous!
Click to expand...
I guess everyone has their own way of working, but I very respectfully disagree. On any of the analog consoles I've worked on the mono button is level compensated, the listening level of the mix does not increase when the mono button is pressed (this might be a choice when the console is aligned, I'm not too sure). For me this works better to judge if anything is cancelling in mono, because you don't have to deal with hearing the level jump when you switch to mono, you hear the mix at the same listening level you did in stereo and if the relative levels of anything in the mix change then you have mono compatibility issues. But like I said, to each his own. This is just the way I'm used to working!

The bigger problem a level jump creates for me in the digital realm is that if you have a limiter on your mix, when you hit the mono button the level jumps and the mix goes into digital distortion on the Apollo monitor outputs. That's not much help at all!!

Maybe the best solution to keep everyone happy is to be able to switch the mono level compensation on and off. Would be a pretty easy feature to add, and it would keep everyone happy!
 
DanButsu

DanButsu

Administrator
Forum Admin
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I'll vote for an on/off function ;)
 
DanButsu

DanButsu

Administrator
Forum Admin
Moderator
Toneranger said:
I guess everyone has their own way of working, but I very respectfully disagree. On any of the analog consoles I've worked on the mono button is level compensated, the listening level of the mix does not increase when the mono button is pressed (this might be a choice when the console is aligned, I'm not too sure). For me this works better to judge if anything is cancelling in mono, because you don't have to deal with hearing the level jump when you switch to mono, you hear the mix at the same listening level you did in stereo and if the relative levels of anything in the mix change then you have mono compatibility issues. But like I said, to each his own. This is just the way I'm used to working!

The bigger problem a level jump creates for me in the digital realm is that if you have a limiter on your mix, when you hit the mono button the level jumps and the mix goes into digital distortion on the Apollo monitor outputs. That's not much help at all!!

Maybe the best solution to keep everyone happy is to be able to switch the mono level compensation on and off. Would be a pretty easy feature to add, and it would keep everyone happy!
Click to expand...
I stand corrected on this one, big time! I mix to k-14, which naturally leaves a nice amount head room, 10 to 12dB of peak dynamics depending on compression... all is well... until you hit the mono button on the Apollo Console, the mix output clips!

So Toneranger, I totally agree that the Apollo needs to "mono compensate". I see (hear) the light clearly now!
 
DanButsu

DanButsu

Administrator
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Oh sweet. I actually just downloaded their ProjectTime plugin. I'll check into the meter one. Thanks for the tip!
 
R

ReverbHead

New Member
Hi, any news on this? I definitely agree with Toneranger that the issue is pretty annoying when working using a limiter. What would be the proper channel to put in a feature request directly to UAD.

Thanks
 
Toneranger

Toneranger

Active Member
You could maybe try messaging Gannon? If I remember right he said in another thread a while back that this issue had been submitted, but hearing from someone else might help speed things up!! LOL
 
D

DJ Hellfire

Established Member
So is this still not in Console 2.0? I wouldn't know because I'm a FW user and we STILL don't have Console 2. :rolleyes:
 
S

skitzothebeast

New Member
I've had this exact problem where I thought my mixes were distorting when a limiter was placed on them and I referenced them in mono using the apollo's console at low volumes. However though, some commercial masters don't distort when referenced in mono using the apollo's console, and there seems to be little to no difference between the volume of the mix when referenced in mono or stereo. Is there something I'm missing where getting a balanced mix referenced in stereo and mono with the apollo's console is concerned?
 
A

Apollove

New Member
I also agree we need level compensation, for me the mono button is unusable in its current state, Let's do it UA :)
 
A

ArKay99

Active Member
I have this on my Dangerous Monitor ST, but for those who don't, I see it as a necessary addition. Better yet, have ability to switch to either just the left or right speaker or both. I typically mute my right speaker at the same time I hit my mono button.
 
B

badsensor

New Member
The Mono button now combines 2 channels into one mono channel so the volume will raise 6 dB. This is far from practical.
Almost every DAW has a mono summing law to keep the perceived level the same.
I am requesting a switching option for the Mono function: 0dB, -3dB or -6 dB.

#featurerequest
 
Last edited:
Matt Hepworth

Matt Hepworth

Master of the UADiverse
Forum Admin
Moderator
badsensor said:
The Mono button now combines 2 channels into one mono channel so the volume will raise 6 dB. This is far from practical.
Almost every DAW has a mono summing law to keep the perceived level the same.
I am requesting a switching option for the Mono function: 0dB, -3dB or -6 dB.

#featurerequest
Click to expand...
Yep, 'twould be nice.
 
UniversalAudio

UniversalAudio

Official UA Representative
Yeah, this is an oldie and not a goodie. I think we'll see some movement on this one soon. Hang in there.
 
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